he is right
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jsusanka Jan 02, 2007 5:19 PM EDT |
I think he is right - people could care less about computers, dmca, drm, or seeing the source code. they will use their computer unupdated, pirated and spyware full until it breaks and then they just buy a new one. one thing though is I refuse any more to fix people's windows peecees. I will install linux for them and support them for as long as they like but I will not touch their windows installation. I do disagree about talking someone through on the phone on how to fix something - it is both equally frustrating to talk them through it whether it be windows, mac, or linux. - at least with linux I can easily have them install ssh and have them tell me their ip and and then I can tunnel through to the box. one other thing I do is point them to open source software that runs on windows like open office, abiword, clamav etc and explain to them that open source software runs on anything and that they like to have people have a choice and not lock them into a platform like microsoft does. and that it is written by people who actually like what they do and don't want to continually syphon money from them. at this point I have won a few people over by installing linux for them and they have been happy as clams and I get no support calls from them. windows just sucks and it is pretty darn ugly too. |
| richo123 Jan 02, 2007 5:46 PM EDT |
Sometimes it is hard to wean the addicts off the craptastic malware. Especially teenagers. I have found that cold turkey works well then. The whining lasts a couple of months but after that you can relax. No more !@##$ reinstalls and chasing down proprietary drivers. The flash 9 beta helped reduce the whining too. |
| tuxchick Jan 02, 2007 5:48 PM EDT |
Telephone support is an invention of the devil. Whoever came up with that belongs in the same category of evil as the first con artist that succeeded in selling client access licenses. |
| jimf Jan 02, 2007 6:05 PM EDT |
I used to be the guy that everyone asked to fix their broken system. I now tell them that the only way I can do support is to install Linux. I think it's critical that we all stop being the 'friend' that enables the addicts. Friends just don't let friends use Windows! |
| Sander_Marechal Jan 03, 2007 1:06 AM EDT |
> Friends just don't let friends use Windows! Exactly. I just finished converting a friend's PC to Ubuntu after she asked me to fix the terrible mess her PC was in. She wanted to go dual boot, but I refused to install a warezed Windows so now she's going 100% Linux(*). Next weekend I'll be picking up another friend's PC to do the same. On all PC's I "fix" this way I install an ssh daemon and a FreeNX server so I can support it remotely. From a new convert I get about 2-3 requests per week in the first month, after that it dies off to about once every two months. It surprised me how fast my converts take to Linux and how few questions they have. Then again, my converts are the *real* mom-n-pop users that just mail, chat and surf -- nothing else. (*) Surpising what people will put up with when forced to actually pay for MS software. I've made all but one of my converts on the basis that I forced them to go out to the store and buy the $199 Windows + $299 Office if they wanted it on their PC. People don't realise how expensive it is because it's usually preinstalled or warezed. |
| purplewizard Jan 03, 2007 2:44 AM EDT |
I think it is true enough but importantly it doesn't make it right. And if something isn't right people shouldn't give up trying to improve the situation. A particular example relates to why these home PCs break. What annoys me is most people I know replace their PC because they can't distinguish a software failure from hardware. So the creeping death that spreads across Windows as it picks up malware and other weaknesses all born from software, or the badly written protection software that drags the machine to a halt by using 96% plus of CPU doing probing. It all leads to the owner being convinced the machine is broken. So they buy a whole new machine. The cure being (in windows world) to reinstall. a follow on consequence is then the loss of lots of their information because it is splattered around the windows machine, they have no idea where it is and right it off. Problems to which I don't know the answer other than the likes of me supporting their family in IT by keeping the old machines running with Linux and making scripting backups for them. |
| number6x Jan 03, 2007 6:23 AM EDT |
They will use their computer the way it comes. Give them a Mac, and they will use it. Give them a Linux box and they will use it. Give them Windows and they will use it. So listen to your friends. When their shiny new Vista computers start slowing down due to worms and viruses, install Xandros or Mint or PCLinuxOS on their old XP box for them, and set it to be the default boot OS. They will use it. In a year or two teach them about other distros and 'free' versus 'freedom'. For now, just get them a working box with flash that plays mp3's and they will use it. |
| bigg Jan 03, 2007 7:27 AM EDT |
> They will use their computer the way it comes. True. That's why in my belief the only way people will adopt Linux is if it is preinstalled by OEMs. Microsoft is changing its business model. They are throwing out the entire bottom end of the market, and hoping consumers will follow. Previously Microsoft relied on being cheaper than the competition (ie Apple). It's plausible that we will see Linspire or similar offerings from WalMart or another retailer. HP and Dell might like to throw away the bottom of the market as well, but I think WalMart would like the option of a computer with 256 MB of RAM on the shelf for $339 while Best Buy and Circuit City are pushing Vista machines for $899. "I'd like to stick with Windows, but is it really worth $560?" It has not received any attention, but it is extremely risky for Microsoft, given the suitable alternative that Linux has become. If they want to move to the upscale market, they should have done it in 2003. They've got a low-cost, fully-functional alternative on one side and the Mac on the other. How many times have you heard, "I'd like a Mac, but look at the cost." Microsoft is getting rid of a lot of that excuse. |
| DarrenR114 Jan 03, 2007 8:26 AM EDT |
Most users don't give a hang about software "freedom". Is it because they don't care? I don't think so. I think it may be more because they don't *know*. Case in point: This past weekend, my family took a trip to meet a friend of my wife at her in-laws. Lee, my wife's friend's husband, is very much a Linux user, having loaded his brand-new Toshiba Satellite with Fedora Core 6. His parents, on the other hand, plead complete ignorance when it comes to computers. While visiting there, Lee could not get his Toshiba Satellite to connect to his parents' ISP through the cable modem. There were some other issues with the FC6 installation, so I gave it a try with my Satellite running Ubuntu and a different ethernet cable. All the lights were green for the connection, but both laptops couldn't seem to get a clean DHCP handshake. Lee was just visiting Florida for the next week from Wisconsin, and I was only there with my wife for the day, so we both agreed that it was not that essential to get our laptops running on his parents' ISP. Nor was he inclined to change much on his dad's computer which was a Dell running MS-Windows XP. He did install Firefox, though. Why didn't he just install Linux? Because he didn't want to deal with the long distance support calls, which he knew he was sure to get. He had previously built a PC from scratch for his parents, and did not want to go through that again. From dealings with my own family and in-laws, I know exactly how he feels. It's not that the other members of our families are stupid - but they don't necessarily know much about PCs beyond turning them on. And in Lee's case, that exactly the situation with his parents. They were very successful retirees who had owned a couple of resort hotels. My Father-in-law would not mind switching to Linux, except for one stumbling block that I don't see a way around for the foreseeable future - Quicken. And I don't really want to be relied upon to drive an hour each way just to give PC support. The best way to overcome recalcitrance in adopting Linux is not just to point out how Linux is better, but first to point out how exactly MS-Windows is *not* "good enough". For the vast majority of people in this country - MS-Windows is "good enough" for what they want to use computers for. It's not worth the hassle to them to go with Linux. It's not worth the extra money to buy Apple products. To change this situation, Linux advocates need to be prepared to personally provide on-site support to each new convert. If you're not ready or willing to do that, then don't bother trying to get people to switch. Helios has a seed of an idea for advertising "Linux" - that's good for getting the word out, but how do we get those non-committed neophytes to become actual acolytes? The only way I can see is to hand them installation CD/DVDs and help them out one at a time. It was word-of-mouth that got me started in 1994, and I don't really see any better way to further the progress of Linux. |
| wizz33 Jan 03, 2007 8:31 AM EDT |
i agree with the whole tread but please turn Bigg's post into an article |
| devnet Jan 03, 2007 10:28 AM EDT |
No...they really don't care. Most people don't want to get wrapped up in Libre vs. non-Libre...it's non appealing. And really, when it comes down to it...it is non-appealing. You can compare it directly to automobile enthusiasts vs. standard drivers. Most automobiles people buy right out of the dealership and they don't modify them at all...but there are those few enthusiasts that rip it apart and make it better (or worse :P ) and try to get the most out of what they have. It's the same in Open Source. But the thing is...if you tell those people that bought from the dealer that they are missing their boat and that there is this whole social movement they're missing that is about freedom as in free and start to wax philosophical with them...you're going to lose them. And BTW, Quicken is replaceable...http://www.appgen.com/ |
| bigg Jan 03, 2007 11:00 AM EDT |
People don't want to get caught up in philosophical debates, but...free is a feature. My wife, who could care less about anything to do with a computer, asked me for a program that could do something. I showed her a program with the necessary functionality, available for Windows, and said "it's open source". Her response? "Oh, so you mean I can install this on all the computers I use, and get free updates?" "Well, yeah, I guess you could put it that way." Once you get used to GPL-licensed software, it's hard to go backwards. After years of typing in activation codes, being told not to pirate software, and putting up with software several versions behind (I still see Office 97 regularly), suddenly you can install the software everywhere, give it to your friends, do almost anything you want with it. They may not care why it works or why people write free software, but "open source" quickly moves to the top of the list of features they look for in software. |
| DarrenR114 Jan 03, 2007 11:00 AM EDT |
Don't get me started on AppGen ... but thanks for the tip. The manner in which they basically went out of business was crappy - the software is now owned by a company that was in "partnership" with them - InsynQ. The VARs basically got left holding the bag. Looking at the site today, I see they still refer to the "4-star" rating from the "CPA Software News" - which hasn't existed since before InsynQ took ownership of the software. Here's a bit of history on AppGen from my point of view: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/10/18/1814211&mod... AppGen experience aside, I'm glad to see that http://aaxnet.com is still going strong. You can get a bit more history on the AppGen Fiasco from Andrew Grygus at: http://aaxnet.com/product/appgn.html I'm going to take another look at MoneyDance and GnuCash ... it's been a couple of years since I looked close at either of them. My first glance at the version currently available for Ubuntu is troublesome because the fonts for 1.8.10 *suck* on my Toshiba Satellite. |
| number6x Jan 03, 2007 12:16 PM EDT |
bigg, I like the idea of 'free' and 'open' being a feature of the software. That's a good way to look at it. Hey the people who write this software trust you and don't think you are a pirate. Go ahead and put it on all your machines. You get free updates too! Tell all your friends. |
| richo123 Jan 03, 2007 1:28 PM EDT |
Darren, gnucash 2.0 is much nicer to look at. I use it all the time now for all personal accounts. Debian unstable has it at 2.0.2 and it can be fairly easily backported from there to Ubuntu dapper and edgy. |
| bigg Jan 03, 2007 1:47 PM EDT |
I just checked out gnucash on Etch. It's quite an improvement. The old interface was kind of embarrassing considering how much press the program gets. |
| DarrenR114 Jan 03, 2007 4:11 PM EDT |
richo123 and bigg - thanks for the heads-up. I'll see about getting GnuCash from unstable onto my Breezy Ubuntu. I'm running FC5 on a desktop as well, so I'll look around for a YUM repository with an RPM as well. |
| dcparris Jan 03, 2007 4:19 PM EDT |
Does it handles split transactions any better? I hate entering my paycheck in GnuCash. Seems like the transaction always gets screwed up, and I have to go back and re-enter it a few times. |
| techiem2 Jan 03, 2007 4:32 PM EDT |
I've been using it for a while now and it seems to behave fairly well.
There's an occasional glitch with splits, but it's usually me putting something in the wrong place. :) |
| jdixon Jan 03, 2007 7:41 PM EDT |
If this is strictly for personal finances, you should also check out KMyMoney. I haven't tried it, but I've heard it's getting pretty good. Another option I haven't tried is Kapital, but I don't think it's been updated in quite a while. |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!