No matter what anyone says, the fact is....
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| hchaudh1 Dec 06, 2006 7:41 AM EDT |
And I choose my words very very carefully, Miguel is a sellout jack *ss. Flame on. |
| tuxchick Dec 06, 2006 8:59 AM EDT |
heh, a lot of people think the same thing. |
| devnet Dec 06, 2006 3:15 PM EDT |
All I know is that whenever his name comes up, I don't want to read what he has to say. I'd rather read Bill Gates than him...and that's sad. |
| Scott_Ruecker Dec 06, 2006 3:27 PM EDT |
>I'd rather read Bill Gates than him...and that's sad. DEVNET!!!! How could you?!?!? ;-) |
| dcparris Dec 06, 2006 3:30 PM EDT |
Well, it sure seems that Microsoft has done some things to impress Miguel. For instance, they were very forthcoming with some promises they had made (fancy that!), with respect to Mono/DotNet. Perhaps young Skywalker is wrestling with the Dark Side? |
| jdixon Dec 06, 2006 4:09 PM EDT |
I'd categorize Miguel as a "useful idiot", though obviously the term doesn't apply literally. |
| devnet Dec 07, 2006 7:16 AM EDT |
Quoting:I'd categorize Miguel as a "useful idiot", though obviously the term doesn't apply literally.Yeah, I used his head to hammer in some nails on some sheetrock I was hanging the other day. ;-P |
| herzeleid Dec 07, 2006 9:38 AM EDT |
I have long suspected that some of these knuckle dragging ximian folks are closet microsoft sympathizers anyway... |
| dinotrac Dec 07, 2006 10:00 AM EDT |
>I have long suspected that some of these knuckle dragging ximian folks are closet microsoft sympathizers anyway... Although I am starting to get a kind of sick feeling in the bottom of my stomach. Maybe it's just holiday season stress. It's just that... The one spreadsheet I've made much use of is gnumeric...a Miguel baby. I like Gnumeric. It's clean and it's fast. Miguel was instrumental in the early days of GNOME. I'm not a GNOME guy, but that does say something about the guy's ability -- especially since Miguel could not have been where he was and doing what he was doing without blessing from RMS. The whole Mono thing is a head-scratcher, and, yet, I've talked to a few people who like .Net and don't think much of Java. I've never considered myself a developer -- I write code only because people will pay me to do it -- so I don't even try to evaluate the two, but I have done some very simple .Net things to help integrate with clients who use it and it seems all right. Miguel, at least from the early interviews I remember, really likes .Net. Lots of really bright people have done and liked really dumb things, but... Here's the sickening feeling...and, again, it may pass when the days start getting longer... If there is one thing I have learned, it is to be very suspicious of bright people on a rampage. The bright despise stupidity, but they also despise genius that doesn't line up with their own prejudices. So...a queasy feeling emerges. |
| tuxchick Dec 07, 2006 10:14 AM EDT |
I don't know much about Miguel, so I don't have an opinion either way. What I do see is his blog post is non-responsive to the issues raised by PJ. Not only that, but he posted a number of comments on Groklaw that also dodged the issue, and were insulting and condescending. I read his blog hoping for some insight from someone with an inside view, but it's just a content-free rant, and now Nicholas Petreley claims it's factually wrong as well. Anyone can have a bad day- on this particular issue he sounds shrill and hysterical. |
| jimf Dec 07, 2006 10:31 AM EDT |
tuxchick, It strikes me that the whole Linux community has been sounding pretty 'shrill and hysterical' for most of 2006. Why should Miguel be any different? |
| dinotrac Dec 07, 2006 10:54 AM EDT |
>Not only that, but he posted a number of comments on Groklaw that also dodged the issue, and were insulting and condescending. That's certainly not something we've ever experienced from gifted hackers, now is it? Frankly, given all of the venom that's been sent Miguel's way, I wouldn't expect much in the way of a polite response. I don't say that to condone boorish behavior so much as to acknowledge the facts of dealing with human beings. |
| hchaudh1 Dec 07, 2006 11:09 AM EDT |
Personally, I like Java just fine. The reason is I don't need to buy inane software and pay licensing fees and still have a perfectly good application stack which can stand up to the stacks provided by the big boys. I have found .Net to be easy to pick up and run with, but what then. At the risk of sounding "enterprisy", I think ease of maintenance and code beauty do have a practical purpose. .Net to me is a me too player. Of course, in a few years, given MS money, enough "Get the facts" campaigns, enough JEE vs .Net studies paid for by MS, it will be a force to reckon with. But that does not mean we should be helping its case. Miguel is no doubt sound technically. But so are tons of MS employees. Its not so much about technical merit as it is about business practice. I don't know if I am right about this or not, but to me it looks like in the absence of Java, there is no enterprise-strength technology stack which can stand up to .Net. And that pisses me off. If you want to invest resources, why not in something that would help the cause of OSS. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 07, 2006 12:47 PM EDT |
> in the absence of Java, there is no enterprise-strength technology stack which can stand up to .Net. And that pisses me off. I think Python could have a really good shot at it. It's a great language. Has all the enterprise features you need and is a breeze to develope with. It's only downside is that it's relaticely slow. I hope someone will fix that and start building stacks with it. |
| dinotrac Dec 07, 2006 3:46 PM EDT |
sander - Python is indeed nice and is indeed slow. Same is true of Ruby, only moreso -- on both counts. Sigh. Lots of real Java heads out there, and that's fine, but Java leaves me seriously suspicious. We're long past the "code once and debug many times" bad old days, but something about the Java projects seems strange to me. For all the beans and OO slickness and things that should be making projects deliver good products quickly, I see java apps that seem to require refactoring merry-go-rounds, poor perfomance, and longer time-to-deliver than I would have hoped. Maybe I'm just a jaded old fart who view it differently if I could bring myself to spend much time code it. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 07, 2006 10:12 PM EDT |
@dino: It may be sufferring from the same flaw as e.g. PHP does: It's so easy and flexible. Programming in a structured way takes dilligence from the promrammers and requires thinking ahead. Both PHP and Java allow you to write really messy code that still works decent and scales pretty well (up to a certain point). I.e. the one-man temporary hack that was written gets expanded and upgraded to a full product. It's the Big Ball of Mud programmin strategy: http://www.laputan.org/mud/ |
| dcparris Dec 07, 2006 10:48 PM EDT |
My language is faster and more enterprise-ready than your language! :-p |
| dinotrac Dec 08, 2006 1:57 AM EDT |
>My language is faster and more enterprise-ready than your language! :-p I'm thinkin' you should hit Mel Gibson up for some funding to make an Aramaic compiler. The way I see it, the syntax might be archaic, but the results could be miraculous. |
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