yep...there is a lot of talkabout that
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| henke54 Nov 25, 2006 9:50 PM EDT |
my opinion: when you do not invite someone to your 'party' ... nobody comes ;-P http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=306736 |
| swbrown Nov 26, 2006 3:26 AM EDT |
It was rather rude the way it was done, and totally hypocritical given he's embroiled in the controversy surrounding him unilaterally deciding to package non-free drivers with the kernel, thereby violating[1] its license in many developers' eyes, and at the very least, reducing our chances to get the drivers Freed by relieving the pressure for distributable 3D drivers. [1] http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 26, 2006 3:43 AM EDT |
I think this whole thing is blown out of proportion. When you're perceived as dying (as many, including Wall Street, believe is the case with Novell), the vultures will circle. Best to get in early and get the good pickings. |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 4:30 AM EDT |
An invitation is just that: an invitation. If people take him up on it, then it is good that it was placed. If they don't, no harm done. |
| richo123 Nov 26, 2006 6:31 AM EDT |
A lot of folk on the Ubuntu Planet blogs thought the approach tactless. I tend to agree. There was a satirical rejoinder on the Ubuntu dev list from a "Sharkey Muddlesworth" which pissed of some but I thought pretty funny. |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 6:57 AM EDT |
>A lot of folk on the Ubuntu Planet blogs thought the approach tactless Yikes!! Tactless developers!! That's never happened before, right? |
| richo123 Nov 26, 2006 7:19 AM EDT |
Dino, Mark's not a developer (anymore much) he's the distro founder and fairy godfather (so to speak). That role really requires more tact than a dev (like Linus say) blasting off on a mailing list. Not cool. |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 7:24 AM EDT |
richo123 - Developers complaining about tactless actions doesn't do much for me. All those pots and kettles, I guess. |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 26, 2006 7:34 AM EDT |
I don't really find it tactless. It's business, and it's not even underhanded business. Don't wanna go? Don't go! Get back to work on openMicroSuSE. You'd think at least somebody would be flattered that Shuttleworth wants them...and I bet more than one winds up accepting. |
| richo123 Nov 26, 2006 7:51 AM EDT |
Oh here was I thinking linux was also about community not just business. Dino, I agree devs are PITAS often (having been on the receiving end several times). All the more reason for Shuttleworth not to be like that. |
| dthacker Nov 26, 2006 8:51 AM EDT |
richo123: Exactly what convention of the the Linux community did Shuttleworth violate? This is how I see it. Ubuntu needs developers to be successful. OpenSuSE may have developers that are ready to move. This is an explicit invitation to the SuSE people to see how Ubuntu does things. I am certain that the patent issue and binary driver issues will be discussed in Shuttleworth's presentations on Tuesday, because his blog already has 4 comments about it. He won't be able to duck it, and he'll have to justify his stance. Once they have heard the Ubuntu pitch, the SuSE people can choose to work with Ubuntu, or go back to OpenSuSE, or join Debian, or even GnuSense. One of the things that I love about working in Free Software is that there are more cool things to do than I will ever have time for. Ubuntu has attracted me because of the openness of their communications, their involvement in the community at local levels (LoCo Teams), and their lack of elitist hogwash. What's needed here, to paraphrase the King, is "A little less talk and a little more installation." Ubuntu is getting it done. I hope a lot of people will come over. |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 26, 2006 8:59 AM EDT |
>Oh here was I thinking linux was also about community not just business. Business is fine, just not underhanded business, and I do not consider this underhanded business, nor harmful to the community. No harm, no foul. |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 11:12 AM EDT |
>Business is fine, just not underhanded business, and I do not consider this underhanded business, nor harmful to the community. No harm, no foul. Exactly. |
| 1c3d0g Nov 26, 2006 12:15 PM EDT |
"It's business, and it's not even underhanded business. Don't wanna go? Don't go!" Well f****g said. [Edited for compliance with ToS - dcparris] |
| richo123 Nov 26, 2006 12:40 PM EDT |
I have no problem with the message and agree with some of the posts above. Just think it could have been done in a way not to cause ill will which it *undoubtedly* did. That is my idea of community. Here is a quote from a Ubuntu blogger that sums up my attitude: "I think Mark had the best intentions with that mail, I also think it was done in a bit of a rush. I don’t think the problem is much with what he did, but how he did it. I think that reaching out to other projects and building bridges are great, but the tone of the mail was a bit divisive, and dismissive of the OpenSUSE distribution, which is in my opinion a fantastic distribution (even though it’s been a while since I’ve used it)." (Jonathon Carter) BTW I think Mark has done a fantastic job with Ubuntu and I use it on four machines at home. |
| jdixon Nov 26, 2006 3:39 PM EDT |
1c3d0g: The moderaters are doing their best to police language on the fora (this is an open site, it can be accessed by minors). You might want to modify your post to avoid their official notice. |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 4:04 PM EDT |
>Well f***ing said. Never mind the minors. "Well said" is a sentiment that loses all meaning with f***ing in the middle. It's just hard to believe that anyone who expresses it in that fashion actually understands what "Well said." means. |
| jdixon Nov 26, 2006 4:17 PM EDT |
> It's just hard to believe that anyone who expresses it in that fashion actually understands what "Well said." means. Well, Dino, you notice I always try to be polite (though not necessarily agreeable). I don't always succeed, mind you, but I do try. This seemed the most polite way to point out the inappropriateness of the language. |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 4:51 PM EDT |
jd - You are polite to a fault. I am not, though I wish I were. |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 26, 2006 5:13 PM EDT |
>Well f***ing said. I, for one, am not offended...but we've covered this ground before. House rules, however, should be followed...although a friendly reminder at the top of threads might be helpful. A lot of folks drift over here from Slashdot, and there are NO inhibitions against some really nasty comments there, eh? |
| dinotrac Nov 26, 2006 6:20 PM EDT |
> and there are NO inhibitions against some really nasty comments there, eh? Which is why some of us don't spend time there, eh? |
| jdixon Nov 26, 2006 6:20 PM EDT |
> I, for one, am not offended... As an old usenet reader, it takes a lot more than that to offend me, but given the nature of the forum, it is inappropriate. Especially since the * key is so easy to use. |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 27, 2006 1:47 AM EDT |
>Which is why some of us don't spend time there, eh? I've spent less and less as time goes by, not because of the language, but because it's hard to sort out the intelligent and intelligible comments from the mass of garbage. I usually pop over there once a day to see what the new news listings are, because things pop up on /. long before they do most other places. Still, I say a friendly reminder at the top of the page is a good idea, rather than being reactive when it happens. |
| dinotrac Nov 27, 2006 3:24 AM EDT |
>Still, I say a friendly reminder at the top of the page is a good idea, rather than being reactive when it happens. In a world where people can come from anyplace with any set of rules (or none), I agree. |
| richo123 Nov 27, 2006 5:12 AM EDT |
Civil discourse (and disagreement) is always valuable. |
| dinotrac Nov 27, 2006 7:30 AM EDT |
>Civil discourse (and disagreement) is always valuable ***Content Warning!!!!! Editorial strokes follow -- This is one of those rare places -- on or off the internet -- where people can express themselves passionately, disagree vociferously and heatedly, yet retain a thread of respect and decency towards each other. The thread gets frayed on occasion, like our nerves, but doesn't seem to break. Alert Ended --- Editorial strokes complete*** And, of course, the editors look best alongside plastic pigs. |
| SFN Nov 27, 2006 7:36 AM EDT |
Threadjackers. |
| tuxchick Nov 27, 2006 10:12 AM EDT |
Meandering back to the OP, yeah, of course it ruffles feathers. The OpenSUSE devs are not going to admit publicly that they like getting an invitation to jump ship from their newly-tainted distro. But it could have an effect over the long-term. After all, receiving invitations is a nice thing, and if M. Shuttleworth really wants to court devs and not just seek cheap publicity, he will privately contact individual OpenSUSE devs. Meanwhile, back at the Fork Ranch, an OpenSUSE fork that is independent of Novell and truly community-supported could make life interesting in a lot of ways. No stench of Redmond, no hassles with Novell, and maybe they could even attract some of the old SUSE folks who bailed after Novell bought SUSE. |
| dcparris Nov 27, 2006 10:47 AM EDT |
I have always been careful to ask people if I could contact them off-list if I wanted to discuss something that might be considered inappropriate as a list post. So, too, Mark should have felt free to do a little fishing, and then cast his line(s) with the developers privately. His move is definitely tactless. Hey, we all make mistakes, so let's see where it goes. 1c3d0g: you really should know better. You're not a newbie here. |
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