Likely worried about the supply chain
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| swbrown Nov 24, 2006 1:20 AM EDT |
IBM's probably doing a bit of damage control for Novell, seeing as they don't want to wind up in a situation where their only vendor is RedHat. |
| dinotrac Nov 24, 2006 5:51 AM EDT |
At least it is Thanksgiving so there is no shortage of tin foil for hats. |
| Abe Nov 24, 2006 6:51 AM EDT |
IBM, as a large corporation is being very pragmatic and trying to say all the right things. They have interests in Novell ($50 Millions) and at the same time have very good relations with Red Hat. Their long experience also tells them not to butt heads with MS because, when it comes to law suits, they know as well as MS knows that both will be losing quite a bit if it gets to courts. IBM has been sitting on the sideline watching from a distance for the community's reaction. IBM can afford watching but the community can't. It is the survival of FOSS that is at stake and the community can't allow MS to have an open season grabbing Linux land. IBM knows that the community can be very pragmatic but not on the account of its principles. Let's face it, it wasn't the wealth of the community that brought it so much progress but its conviction and commitment to its principles. FOSS community strongly believes in flattening the playing fields for all to have the opportunity to compete and flourish for the sake of the IT and the Freedom of IT. The community believes and enforces open standards and they even went to the extent of developing applications that not only run on Linux platform but also for others and specifically on MS Windows. The community wasn't forced to do that, it was by choice and based on Freedom and for the sake of interoperability. On the contrary, MS chose to user lock-in and lack of interoperability. The new clause in GPL3 is the community's response. Whether IBM will accept it or not we will have to wait and see. MS on the other hand is a monopoly and it can't afford to share their market. It is not in their best interest and strategy to allow FOSS to keep flourishing. MS has tried all means to stop FOSS but to no avail. It is very aware that they are about to lose big because they are unable to compete and stopping FOSS from flourishing and getting adopted by many companies and governments is not going too well for them. In their process of preparing for their inevitable big law suit, they are trying to break the community, create more FUD, and make companies who adopted or about to adopt FOSS feel very concerned and nervous and consequently hesitant. There is no doubt that FOSS will fight back, but when it comes to the wire, the big question remains whether IBM will join and help FOSS? I have no doubt that they will in one way or another. They have a lot at stake in FOSS and are not going to do the another mistake and lose to MS. They still have very bad taste from that past experience with MS. Will MS concede and try to cut their losses and make an offer to IBM that they can't refuse? It doesn't look likely when IBM can get rid of or diminish a ruthlessness competitor. IBM will always chose to side with FOSS, they know it is their best business friend who helped them revive the big iron machines. they know FOSS is here to stay. they know that no one will "ever" be able to eliminate FOSS. FOSS is the natural thing. |
| Abe Nov 24, 2006 6:53 AM EDT |
Dino; I don't think there are enough for my big head. lol |
| helios Nov 24, 2006 7:01 AM EDT |
Abe, that was beautifully stated. And yes...the FOSS community, while dollar poor is without a doubt a powerful foe to MS. They fear the raw force of this community and have thrown tens of millions of dollars at slinging us to the sidelines. It was stated earlier that our focus on Novell is Misplaced. I respectfully disagree as I both admire an respect the person making the argument. We already know the kind of slime we are dealing with when dealing with Microsoft...that is a given. What we could not have foreseen was the treacherous move on Novell's part. This is a betrayal that will not be forgiven and I don't think Novell, as of yet, realizes the damage this self-inflicted wound has caused. While it may not be terminal, they may as well make plans for prothstetic devices...the limb they destroyed with this covenant will not grow back. I feel nothing but pity and grief for the OpenSuse Community. h |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 24, 2006 7:06 AM EDT |
>FOSS is the natural thing. I think that's a true statement. People naturally want to be a part of a community and FOSS is no different. I enjoy my time on boards like these, and I enjoy giving a little time/money to help things/people out. Businesses often don't think that way, however. It's good that IBM has a financial stake in the GNU/Linux world; their allegiance can really only be bought, and it's been bought. That sounds bad, but I think it's the truth. >they don't want to wind up in a situation where their only vendor is RedHat. This is an opportunity that I'd bet money Mark Shuttleworth is working hard to exploit. Such ill will towards Novell can lead to a few more inroads for Ubuntu, and give IBM a viable Linux alternative that won't cost a dime. |
| dinotrac Nov 24, 2006 8:29 AM EDT |
Hey guys -- A strange thought started forming in my head the other day. Is it possible that Microsoft is very pleased with the community reaction? I wonder if they have taken to manipulating us? I'm still at a total loss to understand all of the howling and moaning over this deal. I would bet that many people in business -- the folks Microsoft cares about --- potential customers -- share my confusion. Could Microsoft be tweaking the community to revive the old "Free software is for communists and hippies and you don't want to build a business on it" line? They could be laying a groundwork for "See? They howl anytime you try to do something that is perfectly reasonable to protect your business." I don't think they're that smart, but they are that rich. Rich may be good or it may be bad, but, whichever it is, rich can hire smart. Yikes -- Abe!! You're not the only one with a big head. Need...more....foil!!! |
| dcparris Nov 24, 2006 9:11 AM EDT |
Well, Dino, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Microsoft pointing out any infringing code - they, too, have access to our source code, after all - and requesting that coders fix it. It is not only a reasonable and legal approach to resolving problems, it is much less aggravating and costly, and more 'friendly' to boot. And it's perfectly within the realm of capitalism to resolve differences this way. How is threatening customers any more capitialist? Indeed, the latter seems rather imperialistic. |
| tuxchick Nov 24, 2006 9:18 AM EDT |
Abe, I don't believe that it is in Microsoft's best long-term interest to continue to protect their monopoly at all costs. I think the top leadership is pathologically addicted to believing so. |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 24, 2006 9:37 AM EDT |
>How is threatening customers any more capitialist? Indeed, the latter seems rather imperialistic. Most of the world isn't "wired" with PCs yet, and there is tremendous growth potential, and it is this market that MS faces the most competition in. I think if they REALLY worked in a cooperative spirit with the rest of the software industry, they could continue to grow their business. I think it's a mistake for them to believe that they must keep their % monopoly, when even 25% of the potential market out there is far more than they have now. They're panicking, they're not thinking clearly, and they're not thinking with the future in mind. To a large part of the world they're a Big Stupid American Company, and they could change that perception easier with cooperation than with conquest. |
| tuxchick Nov 24, 2006 9:39 AM EDT |
TV commercial: "We're the future. We're the BSAC." Camera pulls back to show struggling dinosaurs in a tar pit. |
| Abe Nov 24, 2006 9:59 AM EDT |
Thanks Helios, It must have been the turkey we had yesterday. I hope every one had a good Holiday. "I feel nothing but pity and grief for the OpenSuse Community." MS is a big trouble, but I wouldn't be too concerned yet. what worries me is the news coming from China, I read some where that their plan is to take and enhance FOSS without giving back. This is not good and could be very troubling. I hope it is not true. Dino: You raise a very good point. You must have had a pretty good turkey day too. When it comes to FUD, MS has many threads. They sure keep many options at hand and they are very formidable. They will always be a threat until they dwindle to a nuisance. If we think FOSS is going to widely proliferate soon, we need to think again. There are still many obstacle yet. But as long as the community keeps a good dialog going and exposing MS shenanigans, I think we will be OK. There are many mature guys in the community and the Internet is our field to fight the monopoly. MS can buy all they want in the press, but as long as there are people who refute the FUD persistently, MS will eventually fail. Let me give you a first hand experience. My company (work for) is 99% Windows. we recently hired an out source to develop a DMS (Doc. Mgmt, Sys). It was written using VB.Net and the cost so far is about $275K (Crazy I know). It was such a lousy job I couldn't believe it. I took it on my own and developed, at home, a Web AJAX based application which turned out to be 1000 times better and in no time. Google & the Internet were my friends. I presented it to the users. They were astonished and requested to make a presentation about AJAX. I said It is Linux/FOSS based and they suggested I make a presentation any way. I did and all were impressed. Apache, MySQL, PHP etc... logos were all over and that grabbed their attention which gave me the opportunity to brag about FOSS. It didn't reach the VP yet, but it will. His motto is, "if you are going to buy me a car, don't buy me a Cadillac if a Chevy will do". I am hopeful. There is still much resistance and concern. IP infringement and afraid of getting sued are the main justifications of FOSS doubter not to adopt in the enterprise. MS knows that and they intend to play this game as far as they need to. Those business launches with customer are not for good gesture. All in all, you bring up a very good point. But MS will not get away with it. It will take time, at least we hope. As honest Abe said," You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time". |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 24, 2006 10:01 AM EDT |
>TV commercial: "We're the future. We're the BSAC."
Camera pulls back to show struggling dinosaurs in a tar pit. Thank you. I laughed hard at that one. 8-) |
| Abe Nov 24, 2006 10:19 AM EDT |
Dino: "Yikes -- Abe!! You're not the only one with a big head. Need...more....foil!!!" Never mind; without going into any specifics, my wife took care of that problem and I only needed small pieces after that. Thanks for the offer though. |
| swbrown Nov 24, 2006 10:20 AM EDT |
"Could Microsoft be tweaking the community to revive the old "Free software is for communists and hippies and you don't want to build a business on it" line?" Yes, Bill Gates recently tried to mischaracterize Stallman and GPL3 as anti-commercial. Stallman isn't - simple example: Cygnus (back when they were with the FSF) used to be in the black selling GNUPro for $2k a pop. I was too amused watching the richest man in the world having to spin Stallman, someone who is basically taking them down with a /philosophy/, to get worked up about it though. :) Ideas are dangerous, eh Bill? Here's the quote where he tries to mischaraterize and FUD Stallman and the GPL3 (which they're obviously now worried about due to it screwing up their Novell attack plan) as being anti-commercial: [url=http://news.com.com/Gates on Vista, Linux and more - page 3/2008-1012_3-6136350-3.html?tag=st.num]http://news.com.com/Gates on Vista, Linux and more - page 3/...[/url] "Now (Free Software Foundation head Richard) Stallman, he is truly pure; unlike many people who sort of try to act that way, he's pure. In V3 (version three of the General Public License) he's going to really make it clear that there's the world of "can never be (commercialized)"--nobody can ever make money on it, you know, build Web services or things. At least he's pure." |
| tuxchick Nov 24, 2006 10:27 AM EDT |
Abe, I can't help picturing your wife with a little TIG welder and you sitting patiently as she crafts a helmet from gum wrappers... "I was too amused watching the richest man in the world having to spin Stallman, someone who is basically taking them down with a /philosophy/, to get worked up about it though." Very good point. While all the lies and propaganda are irritating and tiresome, it demonstrates to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together that Billg and crew are running scared, and don't have facts of their own to refute them smelly ole FOSS hippies. (If they are even capable of recognizing an actual fact.) |
| Abe Nov 24, 2006 10:44 AM EDT |
Tuxchick, You sound like you have done that before... I don't have to worry, she does have experience with the procedure. One thing I thought worth mentioning is while I was looking for solutions for some features for the application, I stumbled across FireFTP. It is pretty neat effective secure ftp plug-in that you can run from within FireFox. It is still v0.9x but I thought it might of interest to some who haven't heard of it. |
| swbrown Nov 25, 2006 4:22 PM EDT |
"what worries me is the news coming from China, I read some where that their plan is to take and enhance FOSS without giving back. This is not good and could be very troubling. I hope it is not true." China's always been this way. Proprietary companies hate it as well, as if you demo to Lenovo, you're at risk of them 'borrowing' your technology. The situation is starting to change though - increased trade relations with our companies that have a heavy investment in copyright is putting pressure on their government to crack down on infringement. E.g., when their president came to the US, his first stop was Bill Gates' house, so you know copyright changes are on the table. Of course, seeing as it was with Bill Gates, you also have to be ready to defend Free Software against changes in the law that would put it at a disadvantage, like the Microsoft tax they imposed on Lenovo a few months ago. |
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