Chicken and egg
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| hchaudh1 Nov 13, 2006 8:14 AM EDT |
I think its a good thing if it pushes Ubuntu deployments. Maybe this would these providers (and others) to open their drivers as more and more people start asking for it. |
| Libervis Nov 13, 2006 8:41 AM EDT |
Or maybe not. By bundling non-free drivers by default they may as well be sending a message to the providers that these drivers are good enough for them as they are, non-free and proprietary. If Ubuntu as the leading distro, however, refused to bundle proprietary drivers that might make more of pressure on ATI and Nvidia to free their drivers so that they can be included in Ubuntu. It is nicely explained here: http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=... I don't think that represents much of a chicken and egg situation though. I doubt that bundling drivers and enabling 3D desktop by default will attract so much more people to Ubuntu. If it is going to grow, it is going to grow anyway and because of different reasons. And the best way to accelerate this growth is not so much in bundling this stuff as much as selling PCs with GNU/Linux pre-installed. But anyway, I'm paraphrazing a blog entry I wrote and is to be published soon enough on LXer about this. ;) |
| tuxchick Nov 13, 2006 8:58 AM EDT |
It's a bigger leap, I think, to open-source native Linux drivers and apps than to supply closed ones. Companies that are into the 'everything must a be big seekrit' are pathologically addicted to secrecy. That, and I'll bet a ton of prime alfalfa that they don't dare open their code because it is chockfull of infringements of all kinds. The way out of that trap is to fund clean-room open source development of a new drivers codebase from scratch. I will die of shock of anything that sensible ever happens, because it still requires opening up their sacred Eye Pee to the unwashed masses and evil competitors, who will steal it and raid their homes and steal their dogs and short their sheets and commit other heineous acts of sabotage and betrayal. |
| jimf Nov 13, 2006 8:59 AM EDT |
Strangely enough, I agree with Danijel on this one, though for different reasons. The goal is to develop and move to open source drivers. While proprietary drivers are available, they need to be a very explicit (and not too easy) choice on the part of the user, to use or not to use. Providing them as any kind of 'default' doesn't encourage open source or its development. |
| tuxchick Nov 13, 2006 9:14 AM EDT |
Libervis has a good point. OMG we agree on something. *die* |
| jimf Nov 13, 2006 10:00 AM EDT |
Hey, I even agree with you sometimes tuxchick :D |
| purplewizard Nov 13, 2006 10:29 AM EDT |
Did someone get advance wind of this and create GnewSense? |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 13, 2006 11:23 AM EDT |
As I advocate in the original story, the proper way to deal with it would be: 1) Don't install AIXGL if a user's video card is not supported with free drivers 2) Have a big fat "Enable 3D effects" checkbox on the preferences screen 3) If the user checks the box, tell him that it's not possible with free drivers. Explain the risks of non-free drivers and offer to install non-free drivers instead. 4) When the user clicks "Just do it!" then install nvidia-glx or ati-glx and configure AIXGL/Beryl. They could even ship the binary drivers on the CD so no download would be nessecasy. But it should not be installed by default. I have no problem making it very easy to do. I have a problem doing it without me explicitly telling it to do so. |
| Libervis Nov 13, 2006 12:45 PM EDT |
purplewizard:Quoting:Did someone get advance wind of this and create GnewSense? It more and more looks like those two Irish guys who founded gNewSense had some visions into the future or something. ;) That distro is getting more and more attractive. Though something like Fedora Core 6 (and might be even better 7) as well as BLAG are other good choices. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 13, 2006 1:06 PM EDT |
FC6 sounds nice but I simply love APT too much to move away from anything Debian based. RPM is in need of a thorough redesign from the ground up. |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 13, 2006 3:47 PM EDT |
Funny. If you listened to RMS's interview...um, it was on some Linux talk show recently...he pronounces gNewSense as "gNuisance." I think he likes being a thorn in the side of the non-free Free Software people. I'm very interested in how gNewSense runs on laptops. I'd like to get a System76 laptop, and if I do I'll probably go for one with the Intel graphics. I'd like to be able to run that as Free if possible. >FC6 sounds nice but I simply love APT too much to move away from anything Debian based. RPM is in need of a thorough redesign from the ground up. FC6 has Synaptic, but to be honest I'm having problems with it. The process locks up before the GUI even comes up. I am using Yumex currently. I have a Radeon 9250 card sitting in the corner; I think I'll try that with the R200 drivers this weekend and see how it works. If I can get decent 3D, I'll move away from Nvidia. |
| Libervis Nov 13, 2006 4:06 PM EDT |
rijelkentaurus, let us know how did it go with Radeon 9250 and free drivers. It would be much appreciated. :) Thanks |
| rijelkentaurus Nov 13, 2006 4:19 PM EDT |
I'll let you know how it goes. I'm very curious myself. I think it will be on my FC6 machine. With or without Synaptic, I still prefer Red Hatish distros. |
| tuxchick Nov 13, 2006 4:34 PM EDT |
Now there's a great name for a new distro- Hattish. It sounds vaguely Scottish, and Scottish is always cool. The logo could be a Glengarry bonnet on a cute kilt-wearing Tux. |
| jimf Nov 13, 2006 4:51 PM EDT |
> a Glengarry bonnet on a cute kilt-wearing Tux Ach lass!... Leave off with the too cute Scootish Tukes.... |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 13, 2006 10:18 PM EDT |
Oh my. It looks like I opened quite a can of worms with that blog post. I got over 10.000 hits when I was asleep and my comments section exploded :-) 45 on my own blog and 108 on digg. It suprises me how few good comments there are. My guesstimates: 25% thought I was talking about costs - they probably only read the title and failed to understand it 55% disagreed and called me a zealot because installing drivers is a PITA. - they only read the opening paragraphs 10% actually read the article and disagreed on some other ground 5% read it and agreed with me 5% was off-topic |
| jdixon Nov 14, 2006 2:32 AM EDT |
Your percentages are probably par for the course. :( |
| dcparris Nov 14, 2006 4:29 AM EDT |
Yeah, our announcement about the Pre-Installed Linux DB set off a few posts on Digg - most of them oddly criticising the project. But I would say the Digg comments probably parallel your stats. |
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