Just to scarry
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| qcimushroom Nov 05, 2006 9:39 AM EDT |
Do a deal with the devil and you most likely will get burned! Most of the others that did a deal with this devil have been cremated. If Novell goes down so be it, I can always move to another distro as long as we can stop any fires that get started from spreading. |
| mdl Nov 05, 2006 10:36 AM EDT |
"If Novell goes down so be it, I can always move to another distro as long as we can stop any fires that get started from spreading." Why wait? I am in the process of switching from Open SUSE now. |
| herzeleid Nov 05, 2006 11:13 AM EDT |
Quoting: Why wait? I am in the process of switching from Open SUSE now.These "sky is falling" reactions are a puzzlement to me. I'm not sure what, if anything, would be gained by switching to another distro. Suse is a great distro, full featured and full of potential, with a great community and lots of features that I haven't seen in any other distro. I'm a *very* happy user of Suse 10.1 on the desktop, and SLES in the data center. So the suits at the high levels agreed to play nice with each other - what effect does that have on me, and what does that have to do with the fine technical people who build the Suse distro? If I did switch, I'd only be cutting off my nose to spite my face. So, I'm with Linus here, I'm going to "wait and see how it pans out". |
| dinotrac Nov 05, 2006 11:40 AM EDT |
herzelaid - I'm with you. Whatever happened to "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" I'm a guessin' the Novell folks surveyed the landscape from the perspective of their overall business and did what seems to make business sense to them. They may be right or they may be wrong, but that is what they're supposed to do. If it ends up making OpenSuse a lousy distro, then I'll switch. Until then...no. |
| maggrand Nov 05, 2006 12:32 PM EDT |
Well Open Suse is not open anymore....its more like venus the flytrap. All my customers and companys are going to switch to amore trustworthy brand like Ubuntu, Debian, Mandriva and so on...The move is extremly easy. |
| dinotrac Nov 05, 2006 12:33 PM EDT |
>Well Open Suse is not open anymore In what way? |
| dinotrac Nov 05, 2006 12:38 PM EDT |
My last comment is just too brief. I'm beginning to wonder why anybody makes any kind of deal over free software licenses. The assorted Chicken Littles around here seem to think that the GPL and other assorted free licenses are worthless. Apparently, all it takes to completely undermine the GPL is to reach some kind of agreement with that nasty company from Redmond. I guess a lot of LXer readers really do think Microoft is more powerful than free software. So...why get all bent out of ahape or whether software is free or not? Heck, why not run Windows? If you don't beleive that freedom is a powerful thing, what is the freakin' point? |
| maggrand Nov 05, 2006 12:52 PM EDT |
Well thats just my point... Suse may be gone whithin 3 month. If the community stops to support and add functionality to the Suse codebase then its bye bye very quickly. It don't matter if Microsoft and/or Novell offers support or not. Its the reverse thing whith Ubuntu. Its a community based dist that have build a good reputation and get a business model around it. Suse is now just pure business. Microsoft's shout abt to mabey sue companys is just a slingshot. If they would begin to sue companys EU would cut the throught of Microsoft. Every company here in Europe would begin to argue to split up the company and that might happen anyway if the democrats wins the next election. Linux has again won on this deal. Because Microsoft have just shot themself in the stomach. This deals tells everyone that Linux is NOW ready to take over both the desktop and the server part. Linux is a grown up alrternative and if u don't consider it....well then then mabey u might even consider Windows...Even if it is full of holes and unstable. So if the deal breaks or terminates in some way....Whooohoooo RedHat wow your stock will be skyhigh...will Microsofts will dip below 20...So i say...why wait.... Let the Suse deal go into the dust bin. |
| qcimushroom Nov 05, 2006 1:00 PM EDT |
Suse was great distro when Novell bought it ....... Then as now, I chose to wait and see ...... |
| galeru Nov 05, 2006 1:48 PM EDT |
The problem is, excepting things that are developed for SuSE especially, the software is for everybody. The only thing that distro's do are repackage and rebrand (possibly). And Novell can do that if it needs to. Frankly, I don't even see the need for the community. It's going to be much harder to kill than just walking away. Remember, they are catering to a couple of large companies, not millions of individuals, like Ubuntu. Novell will likely survive, for a while anyways. As for long term...I'm no futurist. |
| helios Nov 05, 2006 1:49 PM EDT |
I can always move to another distro as long as we can stop any fires that get started from spreading.... Might wanna get some of your bags out and start staging your stuff for a quick exit....or not. That is a knee jerk reaction I am seeing all over the place, however I do not think it is totally without merit or cause. With MS "behind" Novell, I see the possibility of an endrun play around the GPL and massive ugliness ensuing. It is not clear now, but at least one can assume Novell's true motiviation is to position themselves as the only "Legitimate" Enterprise Linux Desktop available...hence making it THE Microsoft of GNU/Linux. This thing stinks folks, and I made a last minute decision that may have massive consequences on my corporation due to this move by Novell. And please, it WAS a move by Novell. All Microsoft did was pull a cookie out of its pocket, pat their knee, then whistle and call out, "Here boy..." Novell did the rest. At least that is what I predict will bear out in the coming weeks. OpenSuse is an outstanding distro and I have made close and dear friends within that community...as some of you ARE those friends. Unfortunately, I see a betrayal of epic mass forming in the deep. It will only be at the last minute, when it reaches close to shore, will any one realize the massive disaster gathered to smash against land and destroy everything in its path. ..."I guess a lot of LXer readers really do think Microoft is more powerful than free software...... Microsoft can mobilize an attack, ad campaign and a number of hostile takeovers before the Linux Community can even decide on who's in charge. In the long run, yes...Open Source will prevail...that is, unless those who have gained our trust in order to line their own pockets makes a deal with them. Wait, never mind...that already happened....to late. I guess they were powerful enough to maneuver Novell into a position of negotiation. Problem is, the bargaining chips they came to the table with are labeled "freedoms 0-3" Now, if some of us are correct, Novell will come to "the community" in the near future with "exciting news" about the future of FOSS. Just be wary of any recompense they may offer. I believe the currency they will offer will include 30 shiny silver coins. If this shakes out the way I see it shaking out...Novell has begun positioning itself to be THE Linux Distro. Now if you will excuse me, I have a horrible feeling beginning to grow in the pit of my stomach....I only hope it turns out to be last nights cucumber salad and immense amounts of compressed methane forming. Either way, I am not going to be the ideal companion for the next few days. h |
| herzeleid Nov 05, 2006 2:05 PM EDT |
Quoting: All Microsoft did was pull a cookie out of its pocket, pat their knee, then whistle and call out, "Here boy..." Novell did the rest.That's a pretty harsh accusation. From what I heard, Ron Hovespian came up with this idea of calling microsoft to talk about playing nice, and interestingly enough, microsoft was amenable. Making Novell out to be the dog here seems a bit off. |
| Scott_Ruecker Nov 05, 2006 2:38 PM EDT |
Quoting:Making Novell out to be the dog here seems a bit off. How? Microsoft has been the one making all the 'threats', Novell just proved that they were afraid enough to pay off the bully. |
| herzeleid Nov 05, 2006 2:41 PM EDT |
Quoting: How? Microsoft has been the one making all the 'threats', Novell just proved that they were afraid enough to pay off the bully.Wow, a lot of anger here, and not a lot of clear thinking.... |
| tuxchick Nov 05, 2006 2:52 PM EDT |
"Such talks would be a good idea, Ballmer suggested, since now only Novell's SUSE Linux customers are the only Linux vendors that have any assurance that Microsoft won't sue for patent infringement." That is crystal-clear. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2050848,00.asp?kc=EWRSS... |
| herzeleid Nov 05, 2006 3:10 PM EDT |
TC - microsoft is talking nonsense as always. Let's just wait a bit and see how this all pans out before we storm Novell HQ with pitchforks, OK? |
| galeru Nov 05, 2006 3:10 PM EDT |
That quote is unclear. Is Ballmer suggesting that they are going to sue other Linux distributions, or customers of other Linux distributions? Can you even sue an end user for using a patented anything? |
| tuxchick Nov 05, 2006 3:30 PM EDT |
herzeleid, true. I just have this paranoia about rampant PHBs gumming up the works... :) |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 05, 2006 3:34 PM EDT |
There's are two easy and valid reasns to switch away from Suse now: 1) Support. There's a much increased chance that Novell will en up being corporate roadkill next to MS's highway. You should be looking for a distro with a brighter long-term future. 2) Violating the GPL. As a user of Suse you are now under Microsoft's IP protection racket. Say, you built something on top of Suse and distribute it under the GPL. Microsoft *may* have a patent on what you built. The MS-Novell deals do not specify a list of patents so it could be any patent. You're allowed to use it anyway because of the MS-Novell deal, but distributing that same work will violate section 7 of the GPL - if not in letter then at least in spirit. I'm pretty sure that the MS-Novell deal does *not* allow Suse users covered by the deal to sublicense MS IP. In short, you violate MS's "holy IP" by distributing your work. Not running Suse means that the MS-Novell deal will no longer *directly* have an effect on you. |
| helios Nov 05, 2006 3:50 PM EDT |
Making Novell out to be the dog here seems a bit off" After giving it some thought, it would seem that I did not fully process all the information...information few if any of us possess. Then again, unless one of us was a fly on the wall, it is going to take some time so surmize exactly what was truly discussed at said meeting. I am not prone to immediately thinking the worst of a person, entity or situation. Unfortunately, all we have is a fairly foul stench coming from this "meeting" The closer we get to it, the more offensive the odor becomes. In fewer words, this whole thing is not passing the smell test. So, in deference to you and others calling for cooler heads an cooler rhetoric until a clearer picture emerges, I will withdraw any suggestion or implication of Canine genetics within Novell. Should my unfortunate prediction prove correct, I will replace that descriptor with "lying, sedicious bastards."" We Will See. h |
| dcparris Nov 05, 2006 5:48 PM EDT |
Would it be of interest to this discussion that Novell has had a few years to watch the SCO case blow up in SCO's face? They have also seen that the group that launched the "assurance protection" scheme seem to have not done so hot. Seems to me that Novell either has, or thinks it has, some trick up its sleeve. I emphasize the "thinks it has" part. The point, though, is that Novell 'rolling over' for Microsoft just doesn't make sense. I can't help but wonder if Novell sought a deal on a specific set of terms, and Microsoft is playing it up as something altogether different. But then, Novell should point that out. I have no idea. I will say it doesn't bode well, but I don't encourage a knee-jerk reaction for the sake of politics. Now there's a case for free software. You can change on a whim if you don't like your vendor's business/political stance, or even if their rep is too ugly. ;-) |
| jdixon Nov 05, 2006 6:19 PM EDT |
OK, I've had a few days to think this over now. AFIAK, no one outside of Microsoft and Novell has seen the actual paperwork involved. When it is made public, a lot of questions will be answered. From what I've read, we have number of points. 1) Microsoft and Novell agree not to sue each other or each other's customers. Microsoft also agrees not to sue non-commercial Linux devlopers working on SUSE/OpenSUSE. 2) Miscellaneous agreements to make various technologies work together better. 3) Microsoft to resell and promote SUSE to their customers using Linux (which is most of them). I think that's everything, though it's possible I missed something. Number one, providing it doesn't violate the GPL (what exactly is Novell paying for?), is a good thing. Microsoft may try to use it in various obnoxious ways, but verbal threats from Microsoft are nothing new and can be ignored. Any actual attempt to sue any other Linux distributors would have the same negative results it did before the agreement. Number two will be a good thing for those using Linux in mixed environments, providing Microsoft keeps their word. I consider that unlikely, and expect this to die on the vine. NUmber three is a definite win for Linux in general and Novell in particular. Novell has just made themselves the Linux choice for PHB's everywhere, and in the process legitimized Linux in general. Whether this is what they planned is unkown, at least by me. What are the drawbacks? 1) Microsoft cannot be trusted. See my comment on number two above just for starters. I have no idea how they will try to use this agreement to hurt free software, but I can guarantee that they will. 2) The agreement may violate the GPL. Others have covered this better than I can, so I'll leave it there. 3) Since Microsoft cannot be trusted, can someone who trusts them enough to sign such an agreement be trusted? 4) What's happened to all the other companies who signed such agreements with Microsoft in the past? Hint, they're not currently members of the Fortune 500 (well maybe Sun still is, but for how long?). OK, I'm sure I've missed a lot. Feel free to open fire. |
| Abe Nov 05, 2006 6:47 PM EDT |
Hi guys, I am back. It has been a while since I last posted on Lxer. All I can say is I was very very busy. The latest news was very concerning and wanted to say something about it. I totally agree with Helios. This deal is all for the benefits of Novell and MS on the account of the FOSS Community in general and Red Hat in particular. Novell is making Linux look like it has MS patents. I don't believe it does because if it did, MS wouldn't wait until now to sue. The SCO suite is about to be thrown out of court, MS is aware of it and trying to preempt the vindication FOSS will have when that happens. Just image the publicity FOSS will get when that happens. That wont be good for MS. Novel couldn't make a dent in Red Hat's dominance in the server market. They tried hard and long but weren't successful. Let us be realistic, Novell has been it financial trouble for a while. Their final solution out of this dilemma is to sleep with the enemy. I anticipate they will be laying under with their face down. Novell is a company and they are free to do what they like and think is best for Novel, but they just can't violate the GPL, not after they agreed to its terms. With this agreement, I believe Novell is violating section 7. When proven, they will be prevented from distributing Linux under the terms of the new agreement with MS. The whole objective of SCO's suite was to collect royalty for Linux in order to make it as costly as MS Windows if not more. SCO failed in producing any valid evidence and the suit is about to be thrown out of court. MS is attempting to do the same except this time it is with Novell's help. As I read about this agreement, one of its items was Novell to pay a percentage of every Linux sale made by Novell. This will definitely will get the job done. I have been using Suse for over six years. It is very good distro but is not the best any more. Today we have K/Buntu, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, etc. I no longer see a good reason to continue using Suse, not after this agreement with MS. I have been using PCLinuxOS and have been very impressed a with. It is not perfect, but it sure is one of the best today. |
| helios Nov 05, 2006 7:24 PM EDT |
Snippet taken from slashdot ten minutes before I posted it here. I am sure the story will surface on the newswire in full, but fellas, whether you know it or not, or whether you like it or not, You just caught your wife sleeping with the landlord. And you weren't even behind on your rent...she just did it to cover the cost in the event you ever were. The analogy takes a sharp rise from R to XXX so I will drop it. Here is the snippet and the link. Sorry for backdoor posting, but this thread needs to form some legs. Novell is serving their own interests and as mentioned by my esteemed colleague above, the "little guys" are gonna get hammered out of existence if this thing goes where it seems to be tracking. Texstar, Warren, the whole lot of IndiDistros are facing a grave situation here...again, if this thing goes the direction it appears to be going. I detest speculation on any level, but not developing a contingency for this is not only dumb...it's completely unresponsible. The technologists and respected voices who CAN do something about this either call LXER home or come here to learn. Let's hope we can cease our distro and kde vs gnome wars long enough to save the concept of GNU/Linux. This could possibly be a history event I would not normally want to be part of... From Slashdot: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/03/2024206 mpapet writes "According to WINE developer Tom Wickline, the Microsoft/Novell deal for Suse support may one day control commercial customers' use of Free Software. Is this the end of commercial OSS developers who are not a part of the Microsoft/Suse pact?" From the article: "Wickline said that the pact means that there will now be a Microsoft-blessed path for such people to make use of Open Source ... 'A logical next move for Microsoft could be to crack down on 'unlicensed Linux' and 'unlicensed Free Software,' now that it can tell the courts that there is a Microsoft-licensed path. Or they can just passively let that threat stay there as a deterrent to anyone who would use Open Source without going through the Microsoft-approved Novell path,' Wickline said." |
| dinotrac Nov 05, 2006 7:53 PM EDT |
>Microsoft *may* have a patent on what you built. What the heck are you talking about? Microsoft "may" have a patent on some piece of software you write tomorrow, let alone anything in the Novell distribution. GPL'd software is GPL'd software. About all I can see is that Microsoft promises not to sue if you are using SuSE's distribution of GPL'd software. How does that constitute a GPL violation? Tell you what, I promise not to sue if you use Ubunut. And, by the way, there are actually are a couple of patents with my name on them (inventor, unfortunately, not owner. Sigh. Guess who gets all the money!!) that you "may" infringe. If I became aware of such infringement, I could let the current patent holder know, which just happens to be IBM. They have an attorney or two at their disposal. So. Have I just ruined Ubuntu by promising not to sue, or , at least, cause to be sued, Ubuntu owners? I suspect not. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 05, 2006 9:41 PM EDT |
It depends. Does your promise not to sue me go along with a threat to sue anybody else using Ubuntu except me? As I said, at the very least it's a GPL violation in spirit. Lets turn the arguement upside-down. The GPL clause 7 pretty much insures that if Suse users cannot distribute, Suse itself cannot distribute as well. If you believe that Suse violates the GPL clause 7 by distributing, why don't you believe you violate it yourself by turning around and redistributing it? |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2006 2:38 AM EDT |
>It depends. Does your promise not to sue me go along with a threat to sue anybody else using Ubuntu except me? >As I said, at the very least it's a GPL violation in spirit. Not in the least. The very fact that a patent exists is a threat to sue. Patents are legal monopolies and lawsuits are the enforcement mechanism. > Lets turn the arguement upside-down. Might as well turn it inside-out and cover it with daisies while you're at it. You have one mighty big "if" in there. What keeps Suse users from distributing GPL'd code? Nothing that I can think of. In fact, the GPL guarantees their right to do exactly that. If you don't want code redistributed, you don't license it with the GPL. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 06, 2006 5:32 AM EDT |
I don't think you quite catch my drift. If you - as a Suse user and software distributer - believe that Suse violates the GPL clause 7 with the MS-Novell deal, then by extension you could be violating it as well. Not saying that this is 100% accurate (or even that I agree), but I think it's a valid enough reason that people are replacing Suse with RedHat besides "just a knee-jerk reaction". |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2006 6:19 AM EDT |
sander - You can believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy. That doesn't put Suse in violation of the GPL. Neither does their agreement with Microsoft. Suse does not create the vast majority of the software that it distributes. Nothing NOTHING in the Microsoft agreement could affect any of that software. I am perplexed as to how anything in the agreement could affect Suse's own GPL'd software, as well. Further, if Microsoft were to offer GPL'd software, that would be especially lovely...how can they sue ANYBODY for patent infringement on software that they licensed the world to use? Answer : They couldn't. That's why they won't release much (I expect nothing, but they might make a few gestures for appearances) software under the GPL. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 06, 2006 7:47 AM EDT |
Quoting:Nothing NOTHING in the Microsoft agreement could affect any of that software. We'll see about that when more details of the agreement emerge, but I understand that people might switch away from Suse over the uncertainty in the mean time. |
| jdixon Nov 06, 2006 8:32 AM EDT |
> but I understand that people might switch away from Suse over the uncertainty in the mean time. As I told someone back when Red Hat dropped their consumer version, the only safe distributions seem to be Debian and Slackware. |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2006 8:37 AM EDT |
>We'll see about that when more details of the agreement emerge See what? If you're going to play Chicken Little, at least take the time to think of how something can happen. For example, what could Microsoft possibly do to the GIMP to make it incompatible with the GPL? I think you're letting your paranoia take you to never never land. It's one thing to be distrustful. Microsoft has earned our scorn and our distrust. However, this is not some low brow sci fi yarn where somebody turns out to be a shape shifter in the last chapter and magically solves all the problems. If you are going to make something happen, you need a mechanism. GPL'd software is GPL'd software. The GIMP is not suddenly different because of the Novell agreement. |
| SFN Nov 06, 2006 10:24 AM EDT |
Quoting:For example, what could Microsoft possibly do to the GIMP to make it incompatible with the GPL? OK. This is just a little devil's advocate. I pretty much agree with you. Let's suppose Microsoft forks The GiMP and creates MSGiMP. Down the road, they decide to close the source, modify the crap out of it, then sell it for $500 per seat in an effort to compete with Adobe's Photoshop. The obvious answer is they can't do that because of the GPL but can't they also not be a monopoly? Aren't they convicted monopolists who were told to split up the company, yet an appeals court threw out the breakup without throwing out the monopoly conviction? So, yes, they are a monopoly but no, they will not punished? Couldn't that just as easily turn into "yes, they violated the GPL but no they will not be held accountable"? Couldn't that be even easier to achieve than the monopoly punishment? I don't know. I'm asking. |
| devnet Nov 06, 2006 10:38 AM EDT |
dinotrac, Chicken little was correct in the movie if you recall :D While we don't live in the movies, I'd like to think that this 'deal' is one that's made for them...it seems surreal. 1. The bottom line is, Novell is going to make money off of selling licenses with Microsoft that make sure you are running "Microsoft Certified Linux" to avoid infringement. At the very least, Novell is guilty of spreading FUD about Linux because this license will be used as leverage and is being used as leverage (and to spread FUD already: see TC's post of the link above)...which goes against everything they sought to build with OpenSuSe. That's enough for many people to "knee-jerk react" away from it. And I don't blame them. |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2006 11:00 AM EDT |
>And I don't blame them. So long as they don't go yammering on about the importance of the GPL. It's clear that they don't believe in it. |
| jdixon Nov 06, 2006 12:54 PM EDT |
> Chicken little was correct in the movie if you recall :D Dino and I both go back a bit farther than the movie. :( |
| jdixon Nov 06, 2006 12:57 PM EDT |
> Couldn't that be even easier to achieve than the monopoly punishment? License violations tend to be a bit easier to prove than anti-trust violations. And remember that Microsoft was found guilty of anti-trust violations. More importantly, the penalties would not be within the hands of the DOJ, but rather with the people suing them and the judge. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 06, 2006 1:57 PM EDT |
Quoting:If you're going to play Chicken Little, at least take the time to think of how something can happen. I'm not playing anything. I'm only providing an example why someone could decide to move away from Suse now, other than the "OMG Novell is teh evil!" kneejerk reaction you pointed to. |
| tuxchick Nov 06, 2006 2:28 PM EDT |
Movie?? Doesn't anyone read anymore?? Devnet and sander nailed it - yes, the GPL is strong, and so is the FUD. I understand why a supposed Linux vendor that is a party to this patent and "eye pee" propaganda would find its customers that are FOSS supporters walking away. The notion of partnering with microsoft is bad enough, especially when they bleat about "interoperability." That part is easy- duh, the code and the standards are open- where's the need to form official partnerships? Sheesh. We all know it's more about trying to dam the river than joining the beach party. Lotsa luck, for the GPL is mighty, but anyone who thinks they're not trying to pull a fast one stand up so we can reboot your brain. |
| devnet Nov 06, 2006 5:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:Dino and I both go back a bit farther than the movie. :( Which one of you is runt of the litter? lol |
| dcparris Nov 06, 2006 5:53 PM EDT |
What do y'all think about the notion, being batted around, that most of the patent talk is mostly a cheap shot at Red Hat? |
| helios Nov 06, 2006 6:47 PM EDT |
is mostly a cheap shot at Red Hat?... It might be a cheap shot...I believe anyone truly involved in the FOSS/Linux community can see that RH is going to come out on the short end of the stick here. Bullets discharged from a Raven 25 Cal (about 49.95 in any pawn shop) can be just as deadly as one fired from my Glock if aimed correctly, so cheap shot as it may be, RH is in dire need of circling the wagons and posting lookouts thru the night. Look, I'm just a dumb ol' Linux Advocate who imposters his way through the day as a "Desktop Technology Manager". Even I can see the clear path of these still-unfolding events. Microsoft has found a way to worm their way into our world and begin stockpiling money in doing so. To our advantage, we clearly know who opened the door for them and WE have the ability to shut it and keep it shut. If I have any sympathy here, it is for those who poured their very sub-atomic being into OpenSuse. Tuxchick sees it with crystal vision. The Mighty Hand of Microsoft can now guide a strong enterprise Linux in any direction it cares to, and bully the others by insinuation and inuendo concerning I Pee litigation...Novell has just relinquished the drivers seat and can only stick around for the ride or ask to be let out on some dark street corner. I can't help but feel that any participation Microsoft has in Linux Business will taint it for everyone. The very thought of it leaves me with a sense of dread. |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2006 7:16 PM EDT |
>Pee litigation...Novell has just relinquished the drivers seat and can only stick around for the ride or ask to be let out on some dark street corner. How do you figure? Novell has just received an agreement from Microsoft to leave them the hell alone. And -- oh, by the way -- Microsoft has received and agreement from Novell to leave them the hell alone. Novell is a lot more than Linux and these two companies have been suing each other for quite some time. In the recent past, Microsoft has shelled out more than half a bil to settle an antitrust suit by Novell. This stuff reminds of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Apple entered its deal with Microsoft. Last I looked, Apple was still in business, making gobs of money, and Microsoft was trying to figure out how it would compete with the iPod. |
| tuxchick Nov 06, 2006 7:33 PM EDT |
".. and Microsoft was trying to figure out how it would compete with the iPod." By making something too expensive, overly-complex, and too restricted. Oh wait.... http://www.medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/zunes-big-innovat... "If Microsoft’s claims are to be believed, this on-the-fly DRM will be seamless and automatic - which must be some kind of first for Microsoft." http://www.medialoper.com/hot-topics/microsoft/microsoft-ins... "I clarified that the 3 day or 3 play limitation will still be in effect for ALL shared music. After your trial listen expires your Zune will simply stop playing the song. The file and associated meta-data will remain on your device - it just won’t be usable." It will probably be a success anyway. **edit** http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6120272.stm "People who have bought music from Microsoft's MSN Music store could face problems if they decide to buy the firm's new Zune portable player. ... But in a move that could alienate some customers, MSN-bought tracks will not be compatible with the new gadget." |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2006 7:36 PM EDT |
>It will probably be a success anyway. Maybe it'll be an x-box success... Sell a lot of units, but not make the company any money to speak of. Let 'em waster their time on that stuff!!! And what kind of a moron would name ANYTHING not the child of Frank Zappa Zune? |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 06, 2006 10:12 PM EDT |
Quoting:I believe anyone truly involved in the FOSS/Linux community can see that RH is going to come out on the short end of the stick here. I'm not too sure of that. I think Red Hat is holding up pretty well under the barrage, and are even milking it themselves for all it's worth. Their "UNTHINKABLE" (http://www.redhat.com/promo/believe/) and "unfakable linux" (http://www.redhat.com/promo/unfakeable/) are pretty good. Red Hat may loose business from less cluefull PHB's but will definately gain in companies that truly value FOSS for the freedoms. They're facing some tough challenges but less tough then their recent 25% drop in stock prices would indicate. On the plus, if you were ever planning to buy Red Hat stock, now is a good time to do so :-) |
| theboomboomcars Nov 07, 2006 7:06 AM EDT |
What I think is interesting about this deal is that it is only for 5 years. So if Novell makes it through the next 5 years implementing all kinds of MS IP what happens then? They won't survive after the 5 years, because then they would be infringing on MS IP and then MS could finally get rid of Novell, after milking all kinds of money from them. |
| SFN Nov 07, 2006 7:58 AM EDT |
Well, they'd only be infringing after the 5 years if they didn't renew the agreement. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 07, 2006 8:06 AM EDT |
Quoting:Well, they'd only be infringing after the 5 years if they didn't renew the agreement. As I understood from the explanation in the other thread, they'd be infringing all the time. They just wouldn't get sued for it. If that's true, then MS will try to take down as many "unapproved" distro's as it can in the next 5 years, then go after their former parnters when their agreements run out. Maybe there agreements are just a way for MS to ensure then when the patent lawsuits start, they won't get countersued by all distro's at the same time (then again, IBM alone should prove scary enough) |
| dcparris Nov 07, 2006 9:22 AM EDT |
I just thought the 5 years was as long as it would take for MS to bury Novell. Hmmm... |
| dinotrac Nov 07, 2006 9:31 AM EDT |
>Well, they'd only be infringing after the 5 years if they didn't renew the agreement. No, they'd only be infringing if they were infringing. An agreement not to sue does not mean you are infringing or being infringed upon. It means you are not suing or being sued. Further, if, for example, Microsoft actually licenses some technology to Novell, the 5 year moratorium won't matter because a license is an affirmative (and, generally, a dispositive) defense against infringement. |
| qcimushroom Nov 07, 2006 6:38 PM EDT |
The "Details of Novell-MS Pact - The SEC filing" @ Groklaw makes interesting reading http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461 But it is still scarry as long as one side is Microsoft |
| dinotrac Nov 07, 2006 6:46 PM EDT |
>But it is still scarry as long as one side is Microsoft Any agreement with Microsoft in it is a scary thing to behold. OTOH, Microsoft is a scary thing to behold whether you have an agreement with them or not. The reactions I've seen to this agreement remind me just a little bit of the 1980s, when Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev reached an agreement to begin dismantling nuclear weapons. That was a matter of life or death for each side. No matter how much eveybody wanted the nuclear threat to evaporate, it wasn't the sort of thing either side could do strictly on the basis of trust. An old Russian credo came to the rescue: "Trust, but verify." In other words, a certain level of trust is required to reach any agreement, but the fact of satellites and on-ground observers made trust a little easier to come by. Novell-Microsoft is not about the total destruction of the planet, but a binding legal instrument helps to add some "verifiability" to that trust. |
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