Back to the drawing board....
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| hchaudh1 Nov 03, 2006 7:01 AM EDT |
I have said a few times here that Miguel Icaza is a sell out. SUSE has been at the forefront of selling out to MS. I think they were the first company to include MONO in the official reps and also F-Spot, Beagle etc. Then Red Hat followed suit and it went downhill from there. Now all the OS devs are left holding the bag while the suits mint the money. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 03, 2006 7:05 AM EDT |
Not sure I agree. It's a bad move from Novell sure. They probably wanted something from MS (Active Directory?) and forgot that most MS parters end up as roadkill. Stupid? Yes. But I am not sure it it was a concious sell out. I'll keep reading when details emerge over the next few days. Also, I have nothing against Mono. |
| jdixon Nov 03, 2006 3:05 PM EDT |
> Also, I have nothing against Mono. I don't trust anything that comes from Microsoft, so I've steered completely clear of Mono. |
| dinotrac Nov 03, 2006 4:18 PM EDT |
>I don't trust anything that comes from Microsoft, so I've steered completely clear of Mono. Mono doesn't come from Microsoft. It comes from Novell. It is an implementation of an open standard certified by ECMA. Either you believe in open standards or you don't, regardless of where they originate. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 03, 2006 4:32 PM EDT |
Yeah, well, as far as ECMA's standards are open. It's just a rubberstamping factory. Garbage in = garbage out because ECMA won't fix anything. Mono/.Net isn't bad. Office Open XML is crap. |
| jdixon Nov 04, 2006 9:54 AM EDT |
> Mono doesn't come from Microsoft. It comes from Novell. It is an implementation of an open standard certified by ECMA. The original source of the programs which Mono is re-implementing is Microsoft. The ECMA is beside the point for me. If I don't trust the source, I don't trust whatever agency the source uses. > Either you believe in open standards or you don't, regardless of where they originate. I believe Microsoft would rewrite the King James Bible to their own benefit if they could find a way to do so. Therefore, by definition, an "open" standard which originates from them is not to be trusted. |
| dinotrac Nov 04, 2006 10:17 AM EDT |
jdixon - The Mono is not re-implementing programs. It is creating new programs to an open standard. What's not to trust? If Microsoft were to release a GPL'd program, would you not trust that, either? |
| jimf Nov 04, 2006 10:20 AM EDT |
>I believe Microsoft would rewrite the King James Bible to their own benefit if they could find a way to do so. I thought they had already done that ;-). |
| herzeleid Nov 04, 2006 10:37 AM EDT |
Mono is an open source implementation of the dot net specs. Normally I wouldn't have any interest in mono as there are plenty of good programming languages around - but I did have to work with c# in a recent programming languages course. Nothing exciting about the language itself, it's basically just java. But it's nice to know I could run dot net on linux if for some odd reason I wanted to. BTW I've managed to get through a whole CS degree program without ever touching a microsoft box, gotta love a school that progressive - so here's a plug for Cal State Dominguez Hills. |
| jdixon Nov 04, 2006 12:41 PM EDT |
> If Microsoft were to release a GPL'd program, would you not trust that, either? Whar part of "I don't trust anything that comes from Microsoft" are you having trouble understanding? :) Use, maybe. Trust, no. |
| dcparris Nov 04, 2006 12:43 PM EDT |
> I thought they had already done that ;-). Of course. They even changed the designation - KJV is now EULA. :-p |
| dinotrac Nov 04, 2006 12:46 PM EDT |
jdixon - It's a serious question. Beyond the freedoms to use, modify, and distribute software, freedom has some implied secondary freedoms -- such as the freedom from hidden backdoors, etc. A GPL'd program, regardless of its source, has those freedoms. If Microsoft GPL'd software with backdoors, those backdoors would be found and removed. That's the power of free software. So...do you believe in free software or not? |
| jdixon Nov 04, 2006 3:05 PM EDT |
Dino: > So...do you believe in free software or not. I believe that everything humans make can be subverted. I don't think free software is any different in that regard. Microsoft is a dangerous enemy. It doesn't pay to underestimate them. Let's put it this way. If Microsoft released a GPL'ed program which I felt the need to run (which would require a very good reason), I'd make sure I compiled it from the source and I'd probably run it on a virtual machine. |
| tuxchick Nov 04, 2006 3:45 PM EDT |
jdixon, don't forget the garlic, wolfsbane, and chicken feet. I do believe in free software, and I also believe in Redmond's ability to subvert and damage it by whatever means they can think of. Like propaganda, lies, buying terrible laws, and using bogus patents and legal threats to discourage free software developers and distributors. They are not polite people who play fair- they are dirtier than dirt and without so much as a molecule of scruple. However, I am hopeful that as more Microsoft minions are exposed to free software, they will see the value of it, and doubtless be astonished by the very sight of quality code, and stunned and amazed by the free exchange of information. Technical excellence does not drive Microsoft, despite their newspeak to the contrary, which is discouraging to employees who want to produce good work. Any changes in the company are going to come from the ground up- the old guard are far too set in their evil ways. |
| jdixon Nov 04, 2006 5:52 PM EDT |
> don't forget the garlic, wolfsbane, and chicken feet. I may have to restock. I don't believe I've needed those since the last time I ran a SCSI chain here at the house. :) > and doubtless be astonished by the very sight of quality code Or blinded. > Any changes in the company are going to come from the ground up- the old guard are far too set in their evil ways. Agreed. Fortunately, the old guard is changing. Bill is largely gone, and I don't think Ballmer will stay too much longer, so there is hope. |
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