Same FUD, Different Day
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick2 Oct 16, 2006 11:44 AM EDT |
Software installation problems? Hint: apt-get, aptitude, Yum, Synaptic, Adept...Mr. butler needs to try a Linux from this millennium. 'my clients continue to demand more in the way of easy video editing, powerful photo organization and completely plug-and-play operation of the latest hardware'. Always a problem because of the evil empire's stranglehold on hardware vendors. Anyway, aren't those Mac specialties? Trying to do those things on winduhs suxx roxx. I use Kubuntu for all of my digital photo editing, printing, and archiving. KDE's native apps do a splendid job- I dare anyone to diss Konqueror's incredible support of practically every filetype and protocol there is, and wonderful abilities as a file manager. Slamming "The Linux Desktop" because of bumpy multimedia support is absurd, as is continuing to wish that Linux were easy enough for the "average novice user." The "average novice user" does not exist, and no novice user will be able to "sit down in front of an untweaked copy...and do everything he or she wants" on any operating system. Just another example of SFDD- Same FUD, Different Day. |
| jimf Oct 16, 2006 12:05 PM EDT |
"Where’s the Progress"? "the Penguin has disappointed us"? I wonder what world this guy lives in??? I've said for the last two years that the Linux adoption on the desktop will never be a 'year of the Linux desktop' thing, but rather a slow steady growth. Looking at the last 3-4 years, anyone with eyes in their head can easily see that user growth, and, a tremendous influx of former Windows users. What will happen is that one day we'll just be taking Linux as a desktop a given, no flags waving, nor horns blowing, no confetti... It will just have happened. |
| tuxchick2 Oct 16, 2006 12:13 PM EDT |
This guy is either flame-baiting or ignorant, and I am vastly irritated at the absolute absence of facts or rational basis for the piece. This inspired a new saying: "Internet publications are like ***holes. Everybody's got one" |
| jimf Oct 16, 2006 12:20 PM EDT |
I'm really getting ticked with the mob of people who are jumping up and claiming to be 'long time experienced' Linux users, and 'Linux consultants' when they're obviously just MS plants, or a very least just incompetents. |
| tbutler Oct 16, 2006 12:40 PM EDT |
Tuxchick2: The software installers you mention continue to be problematic for multi-distribution software, and particularly proprietary software (which usually opts for other methods of installation). Konqueror (or any file manager) is hardly the ideal photo management tool. Jimf: You may be right that it is a slow progression. It just doesn't seem to be progressing much at all as best as I can tell. Re the latter comment. I have been using Linux on the desktop since Red Hat 5.1 in July of 1998. I have used all of the major distributions. From 2001-2004, I used Linux exclusively on the desktop. I remain a UNIX (Mac OS X) desktop user -- not in any way a MS plant. I admin *nix on the server as part of my business. I do not claim to be a Linux consultant -- I consult on all three major platforms (primarily Windows, but like I said, I do not use Windows on *my* desktop). I have been on hiatus for most of the year, but prior to that I was at the post I am now, editor of Open for Business. I spent much of our five year existence writing stories promoting the Linux desktop (check our archive if you need proof -- especially my early pieces that essentially took the opposite position of my present one). |
| tuxchick2 Oct 16, 2006 1:53 PM EDT |
It is brave of you to venture into the mosh pit here, Mr. Butler, but you're not going to convince me that your editorial is anything better than misinformed. It reads like a gloomy mood and limited experiences extrapolated into a global reality. What do you want, people pounding on your door demanding Linux? You've completely missed all the amazing strengths and features of Linux, and instead focused on the supposed needs of the mythical "average novice user". How many people with little or no computer experience have you put in front of any computer that can "do everything he or she wants" ? Nobody is born knowing how to run a PC, but this I do know for a fact- users who are experienced only with Windows can install most modern Linux distributions easily, but often cannot install Windows. And users who try out a Linux PC learn their way around it quickly with a bit of help. Just like windows and mac. As for multi-distribution third-party apps, that's a fave and discredited strawman. Anyone can package an RPM or .deb, even an old country sysadmin like me. A generic RPM or .deb will install on the majority of Linux distributions. Open Office used to have an installation script that worked on all distributions. Sun's JRE uses an installation script. Those are large and complex, so I don't see the problem for other apps, other than unwillingness or lack of knowledge. I'm wondering which third-party apps you're concerned about anyway, given that the average distribution repository contains over 8000 packages? Windows users don't have magical reliably plug-n-play or magic software installation. As much as I try to get away from doing windows support, I still spend a fair amount of time making peripherals and new software installations work right. "Konqueror (or any file manager) is hardly the ideal photo management tool." On what do you base this? As I said, that's exactly what I use it for, and a lot of my customers as well. They are quite happy with its functionality and stability. Are you familiar with the Image View? The 'Create Image Gallery' feature for quick Web galleries? These are awesome for organizing image catalogues quickly. The split-screens, the command shell integration? Open a file in the application of your choice with a right-click? Linux's ability to discern the true filetype and not be misled by file extensions? Maybe a nice walk in the fall woods or a bowl of bran cereal will make things look better. edit ------ p.s.: I'm not saying that everyone should love Linux, or will. But migrating away from the evil empire isn't all that big a deal for an awful lot of PC users. |
| number6x Oct 16, 2006 2:30 PM EDT |
Take your average computer user and give them a computer with Windows XP on it. Come back in six months. It will be infected with all sorts of trojans and spyware, behaving erratically and performing poorly. It will cost the average user hundreds of dollars a year to just maintain this minimal limited level of 'usability'. This would not be the case if you had given the user a Mac. Therefore Windows XP is not a product ready for the average user. Do you agree Mr. Butler? After all, this is pretty much how you are measuring Linux. Windows may be fine for business use where you have a staff to solve these issues that plague the platform. But applying your reasoning to the Windows platform for home users, you will find that it is not a product for the average joe. |
| jimf Oct 16, 2006 2:37 PM EDT |
tbutler, I think RedHat is the wrong place to be looking for this. Mepis, since 03 and more recently Ubuntu, have be pulling in swarms of Windows noobs who are now running a happily Linux Desktop. Everyone from schoolboys to Grandmas. The response to the linux Desktop is truely amazing. I personally see 'at least 3x' as many Desktop users than I saw when I began doing support. I've done IRC, and forum support for the Mepis Desktop since 03, and nearly all the new users are converts from Windows, most of them with only a rudimentary knowledge of the computer (sometimes not even that). We are not talking about the technical geek of times past, and, that in itself is a tremendous step forward. I continue to do some support for Mepis, but most of my effort (and my Desktop) is in Debian. Where the Desktop action is... If you must use an rpm Distro, look at PCLinuxOS, a great KDE desktop, and an easy install. I prefer Debian based Distro's like Kanotix, Mepis, & Kbuntu. Even Debian itself is doable with a little experience, and all provide bulletproof desktop environments. For a business environment, even though I much prefer KDE for a new desktop user, I notice that Suse has an excellent Desktop, and supplies strong support. But, others in this forum are far more qualified than I on desktop business usage. > Konqueror (or any file manager) is hardly the ideal photo management tool. True, so try gqview. Really Tim, there are a slew of great photo/pic managers in Linux :) |
| dcparris Oct 16, 2006 2:58 PM EDT |
Hey all, I've known Tim since about 2004, and know him to be a good guy, generally speaking. That said, I have to disagree pretty strongly with a good deal of Tim's editorial here. From my own experience, as well as from my straw poll on the Ubuntu users' list, people are continually making the total switch - and helping others to switch as well. I have set people up with Ubuntu boxes locally, and they have managed with little or no technical support at all. In keeping with what number6x said, the absence of virus issues is a huge benefit for non-technical users. We all know that the multimedia stuff is mostly legal mumbo jumbo that affects what distributions and end-users can do. That said, I have known plug-n-play printers that are supposedly easy to install under Windows to be much more of a pain in the neck than anything. I have had several IT co-workers share their horror stories about taking 3 days to a week to get their neighbor's printer working under Windows. The same printers under a decent GNU/Linux distro? Auto-detected, auto-configured and working during the installation routine. Hmmm... I also believe that much of the editorial overlooked the competitive issues at stake. The under-availability of GNU/Linux as a pre-installed option plays a much bigger role in the slow progress than the technological issues. So I honestly believe Tim has missed something important to the discussion. Making information about such systems is crucial to the marketplace, a task LXer is currently undertaking. Marketing is one of the weakest links in the FOSS community's business endeavors. Don |
| jimf Oct 16, 2006 3:21 PM EDT |
> Marketing is one of the weakest links in the FOSS community's business endeavors. Absolutely Don. Right now, the main source of information is word of mouth. What amazes me is that it's working at all. A thought here. I really think that if we could mach MS (or even mac) ad for TV ad, MS would go belly up in a year. |
| tuxchick2 Oct 16, 2006 3:58 PM EDT |
Ok then. I take back all my grumpiness and depart to inflict it on someone deserving. BIAB. |
| dinotrac Oct 16, 2006 4:24 PM EDT |
Rev et al... The one reason I don't consider this article FUD is because he focuses on mutlimedia. Not only is that an Achilles heel for Linux, but it's not Windows that he's moving people to -- it's the Mac. There are contenders getting their acts together, like Jahshaka getting their acts together, and Kino is becoming more capable, but, for serious editing, I still end up turning to Cinelerra (now available in two flavors). This is all good stuff that lets me do some amazingly heavy video lifting, but nothing that works in the sweet smooth way that the Mac does multimedia, especially for the casual user. And, of course, Cinelerra has it's very own GUI that doesn't relate to much of anything. For audio only, Linux has audacity, which is also popular on Mac and Windows. Again, not the slick Ma iwhatzit stuff, but not bad and fairly accessible for casual users but very powerful for less casual users. There are two areas where I might differ with Time: For KDE users dealing with their own digital photos, digikam has become a very sweet piece of software. My wife uses it to manage our digital photos and prefers it to anything she's used on Windows. We won't talk Mac because, well, we don't talk Mac. This may be an "eye of the beholder" kind of thing. Ditto for K3B h which ain't slick to look at, but sure is sweet to use. Again, it passes the wife test and is one of her favorite applications of any kind. Of course, she's got me to make sure everything works, and that is no little thing, although I find myself having to do less and less , it seems, with each release. It should be noted, however, that one needs to know about the applications in order to get yourself set up nicely. If you buy a Mac, you know about the i-stuff. You just do. |
| jdixon Oct 16, 2006 5:34 PM EDT |
Tim: > and particularly proprietary software (which usually opts for other methods of installation). And how is this a problem with the OS? This is a problem with the vendor. If they're too incompetent to provide an rpm, deb, or tgz package, then you have more to worry about than an installer. Ditto for the hardware support. Now, multimedia, there I will admit that Mac's have an edge, and that Windows requires less work on the user's part. Though DRM will soon change that equation irrevocably. |
| helios Oct 16, 2006 5:35 PM EDT |
I have just returned from the brutal environment that is Buffalo, New York. The company I work for had the need to send me there one day ahead of of the meanest blizzard I have ever experienced. Being snowed in anywhere is hell but being snowed into Buffalo, with only two hours of generator power allowed daily to get critical server missions accomplished stunk more than I care to talk about. I have never been so glad to be away from any place as long as I have lived. Now, what I did in Buffalo was help replace an entire Microsoft environment with Linux server and desktop environments. As was the case in Portland, Boise, Spokane and San Jose...so it was in Buffalo. On the morning of the "big surprise", the grumbling was minimal and the most profound expletive was, "cool...this is different." Several looked at my transition team and wept in gratitude. The home Linux Users were obvious. Not one stormed out in protest. At least in Buffalo...there was "that particular sysadmin" in San Jose... My point is this. Jim is right. By inches and megabytes we will encroach upon MS turf. Until we succeed in organizing a grass roots, city-by-city advertising campaign, the Linux Creep will remain just that...a slow, steady advancement upon the desktop. As some of you know, it has been tried and it failed quickly. The money was there...thousands upon thousands of dollars were being held in Q until someone organized a Fund Management Team to administrate the funds. No one stepped forward and the project quietly died. All funds were returned within 72 hours. Give Linux 30 days in 20 major cities on the airwaves and the Microsoft Stockholder will become as rare as the Amiga user. It will be a joy to behold. h . |
| jdixon Oct 16, 2006 6:00 PM EDT |
Helios: > The company I work for had the need to send me there one day ahead of of the meanest blizzard I have ever experienced. You need to come up to WV some winter. We'll show you some real snow. :) The winter of 1977-78 we had 12 feet of snow. The drifts were over 20 foot deep and covered the power lines in places. Just a couple of years ago my car was completely buried during a weekend long blizzard. It took me two days to dig out and another day for the snow plows to reach our house so I could actually get anywhere. Ask DC, he'll tell you about walking to school through the snow. Uphill. Both ways. :) |
| jimf Oct 16, 2006 6:30 PM EDT |
jdixon, Seriously, Buffalo snow is 'legendary'. |
| jimf Oct 16, 2006 6:34 PM EDT |
> until someone organized a Fund Management Team to administrate the funds. Obviously, that is something that has to be in place before any future effort. |
| joel Oct 16, 2006 6:37 PM EDT |
Helios, good to hear from you again. I, along with probably several thousand others have been wondering how the new job is going. Yep, the blizzards in Buffalo are legendary, but from what i gather, the satisfaction quotient is really high for you now. Great job. May you live long & prosper. :) joel |
| moopst Oct 16, 2006 6:48 PM EDT |
jdixon I was a a paperboy in Michigan in '78. The blizzard was great in 78. I remember 50 mph winds and 70 below windchills. It was so cold I had to hold the next paper less than 2 inches from my face in order to breath and look down at my feet to navigate. |
| tbutler Oct 16, 2006 7:20 PM EDT |
A lot of you have very excellent points (and, thanks, Don, for vouching for me). To be sure, I am not anti-Linux. In fact, I have a few pro-Linux articles up my sleeves. My primary contention has been (and this was true even when I was still primarily a GNU/Linux user) that Linux must exceed the other options to take over. It is true that Windows is far more virus prone (I know that all too well, since that is a large part of what I deal with day in and day out). I also know that for all the mumbling people will make when their systems are down because of Windows' insecurity, that is often not enough to push them out of their comfort zone. Yes, Linux on the desktop will work in the large corporate environment that has Linux servers and desktops admin'ed by a professional like Helios. This is very different from many of my clients who have small shops with a handful of computers, no servers, and only hire me to come in when something goes terribly wrong. This is especially true when we get to multimedia. In a lot of small shops I deal with, I've found that many "general purpose" computers are expected to be able to manage digital photos, produce video, and do all kinds of other gee-whiz things beyond what a some big corporation may care about allowing its users to do. This is where the hang up appears. Example: iPhoto is designed by those who understand what photographers need and its "workflow" follows what photographers seem to want, for example (Aperture even more so, I suspect, though I've not used it). If it does the job, many care very little about the cost. Doing The Job (tm) is the thing of key import to the point that they would rather stick to a virus laden OS than switch. The bar is higher for Mac OS X or Linux. They must be much better than Windows to get a big amount of migrations. Mac OS Classic was arguably better than Windows much of the time, but not so clearly so that people switched. Mac OS X, with its file I/O level search indexing (Spotlight), iLife suite, etc., is exciting enough that died in wool Windows users are intrigued. I'd agree with Don that a lot of it has to do with lack of preloading. However, to get preloading, Linux needs to create demand for preloaded desktops and to create demand for preloaded desktops, Linux needs to be appealing on the desktop. It needs to be where it is installed and immediately there are a few things a user sees that seem clearly better than Windows. That's how I've gotten people to switch to Mac OS X. I have put several novice Windows users in front of a Mac, given them little or no instructions (other than stuff like how to configure their mail server, which I have to help a person on no matter what OS they use), and had them suddenly start doing things like making really slick movies in iMovie. That's the difference I see in the two. If my editorial is aimed at anything (like many of mine have been in the past) it is to try to wake people up. Users don't care about the well designed framework of KDE or the cool technology of GLX -- they care about seeing the things that can be made with that. Admittedly Kontact is one such thing. We need to see more fruits of the technologies. Apple releases something like the new "Core Animation" framework, but does so simultaneously with Time Machine (built on that technology). As an aside, in case I gave the impression that I use Red Hat on the desktop, that is not the case. My Linux system runs Ubuntu. I do use RHEL on my server, however. |
| jdixon Oct 16, 2006 7:24 PM EDT |
> I remember 50 mph winds and 70 below windchills. I've seen 100 below wind chills. Several times. We have a phrase for 50 mph winds. "A bit breezy out today". :) > Buffalo snow is 'legendary'. Yes, but those are sustained snows. This was a minor squall in comparison to Buffalo's REAL blizzards. The only thing that made in unusual was that it came so early. Still, I'll match our sustained snows up against Buffalo's and I doubt we'll come out that far behind. Of course, that's for my hometown, not where I'm living now. They didn't name it Mt. Storm for nothing. |
| dinotrac Oct 16, 2006 7:31 PM EDT |
Tim - I see a strain through some comments here that suggest some of my friends on this forum just don't get it. That strain is "how is that the fault of the OS", or "Well, that's because of all kinds of legal crap, not because of the technology.". Clue alert: Most users don't care. What they know is what they see and that is what works for them. Why has no bearing at all. To say things are one way or the other is not to assess blame. It is to say that things are one way or the other. |
| tuxchick2 Oct 16, 2006 7:54 PM EDT |
Don't get what? How you still walk barefoot both ways in the snow? I still don't agree that the Linux desktop is behind winmac in usability, or that installing software is more difficult, except poorly-written and poorly-supported stuff. Which is the same on any platform. Or that novice users can't learn Linux, or that winmac is somehow instinctual, where linux is drudgery and toil. "The basic user interface methodology that dominates on the Free Software desktop continues to differ little from that which Microsoft premiered eleven years ago in Windows 95." Say what? There is absolutely no comparison. The windows desktop is a poor crippled thing that can't do anything except launch applications. You only get a single desktop, the command console gives you a limited set of DOS commands, and it's about as customizable as your average brick. I can understand being disappointed that Linux desktop uptake is not faster and that we're not seeing more on store shelves. But there is a whole bale of assertions in this piece that just aren't so. |
| jdixon Oct 17, 2006 5:27 AM EDT |
> That strain is "how is that the fault of the OS", or "Well, that's because of all kinds of legal crap, not because of the technology.". > Clue alert: Most users don't care. What they know is what they see and that is what works for them. Why has no bearing at all. Well, I agree. I don't care either. I simply fix the things as best I can and do without when I can't. The cost of using Windows or a Mac is simply too high to do otherwise. My pain threshold regarding my OS is apparently much lower than most peoples. When the cost becomes too high for the average user, they'll switch. Until then, they probably won't. Fortunately for us, Microsoft seems intent on continually increasing the pain level. > To say things are one way or the other is not to assess blame. It is to say that things are one way or the other. True, but it also does nothing to solve the problem. In order to solve a problem, it's usually necessary to understand why the problem exists. |
| dinotrac Oct 17, 2006 5:32 AM EDT |
>True, but it also does nothing to solve the problem. In order to solve a problem, it's usually necessary to understand why the problem exists. Absolutely true, but... "It's not my fault" is a whine, not an assessment. Assessments are coupled with "What can we do?" |
| jdixon Oct 17, 2006 7:04 AM EDT |
> Assessments are coupled with "What can we do?" OK, pretty much rambling here, but.. Well, except for supporting FOSS when we can, I don't see there's much we can do as individuals. The problems brought up so far are essentially preinstalls, hardware support, and multimedia support. I think we all agree that we need to get Linux preinstalls available to the public. We've all tried telling Dell, Gateway, et.al., that we want Linux on the desktop. Microsoft says no way. Guess who wins. Helios has tried the advertising thing. It didn't fly. We've all tried supporting Linux friendly vendors and complaining to those who don't support Linux. Again, how far has it gotten us? The multimedia problems are a legal problem, and need to be tackled in the courts and legislature. That requires specialized knowledge and political access not available to most of us. It finally comes down to the fact that there's only so much an individual can do. Now, as a community, we may be able to do more, but it takes people with knowledge and experience in the fields involved. By and large, we don't have those. Our only options appear to be keep doing what we know how to do or to hire the expertise we need. For a number of reasons, I don't see the latter happening, or being successful if it's tried. I'd love to be proven wrong. So, having covered the individual and community options, that leaves us the corporate solution, i.e., Linspire.. I'm not sure Linspire is what any of us want to see as the future of Linux, but otherwise we appear stuck with with the slow but steady gains we're currently seeing. |
| dinotrac Oct 17, 2006 7:18 AM EDT |
jdixon - Good post. As individuals, the best thing we can do is to be both realistic and hopeful. "It's not my fault" does no good when talking to somebody who wonders why the internet looks funny, etc. If somebody really loves iMovie and Garageband, Linux might not be the best choice. It's OK to let a few go. Better for your credibility. Keep abreast of Flash and Gnash. It looks like Adobe's serious about making the Linux Flashplayer a true peer to the Windows version. Love Flash or hate it, this is good news unless you are really offended that somebody might get off of Microsoft's crap only to run flash on an otherwise free box. A lot of sites that would have been nothing but Windows Media in the past are doing the Flash thing now. With lots of Windows users already using Firefox, internet browsing is on a serious collions course with parity. Heck, given stability and security, superiority. Mostly, just stay in the real world. Linux will fit a lot of desktops now. It must deal with limitations that make it less than ideal for some users. It ain't Linux's fault that iMovie has no equivalently sweet and capable linux software. WIndows can't match it either. Mutlimedia is a Mac sweet spot. It's ok to accept steady growth, picking up users as their needs can be met. Really, it is. |
| number6x Oct 17, 2006 12:55 PM EDT |
Thanks for tiking the time to explain Mr. Butler. I think I understand your point better now. |
| jdixon Oct 17, 2006 1:46 PM EDT |
> It's ok to accept steady growth, picking up users as their needs can be met. Really, it is. I agree, but it seems not everyone is as willing to accept about the current state of affairs, as demonstrated by the article which started this thread. Personally, I may not like the status quo, but things are moving in our direction, even if the drift appears imperceptible at times, and I can live with that. |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 17, 2006 3:50 PM EDT |
>We've all tried supporting Linux friendly vendors and complaining to those who don't support Linux. Again, how far has it gotten us? I wonder if a slightly different tactic would work here. Perhaps our efforts have been too broad in scope. It's like organizing a letter-writing campaign to blanket Nvidia with our desires for their drivers to be open source, but still buying their stuff. We've given them no reason to want to change. Consider this ONLY AS AN EXAMPLE. I've played with this idea for a while, sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the number of beers. ;) Rather than not buying Nvidia cards (which work great and have great support under Linux), perhaps we should focus our efforts like a laser, and not target Nvidia at all. Let's kill the messenger. Let's try something like not buying Nvidia cards from ONE MANUFACTURER...don't buy cards from MSI. Or boards. No MSI products at all. Why should we cheat ourselves from a great chip with great 3d support...buy something from eVGA or one of the other manufacturers, just nothing from MSI. Let's make MSI feel a little pain, and when they hurt enough let THEM target Nvidia, let THEM focus their considerable pain...and money...at getting open source drivers. When they accomplish that, then let's give MSI sort of a most-favored-nation trading status...a Friends of the Penguin award. If they don't do that...screw em, let them go out of business (or at least suffer financially a little bit). I think that would be easier than a "support the good manufacturers" effort. And it just might work better. It's okay. I've been called full of crap before. 8) |
| jimf Oct 17, 2006 4:09 PM EDT |
rijelkentaurus, The idea is great, as far as it goes... The problem is, it's the equivalent of getting all Linux users to use the same Distro. |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 17, 2006 5:19 PM EDT |
No, I don't think it'd be that bad. Besides, you don't really have to make a major impact...even a couple of percentage points decline in sales would be doable. Even the slightest thought that it might be occuring would probably make a company sweat. It's not like it robs anyone of REAL choice. You could still use Nvidia, just not from one company. There'd be no guilt in buying a card from eVGA or someone else...just don't buy MSI. It might be easier to target something a little less ambitious. Maybe just a brand of NIC? If it can be shown that Linux users can make an economical impact...ANYwhere...it would be worth the effort. Something like this could spread easily across Linux news outlets...like LXer...and it could pick up steam. Just an organized effort to let the hardware manufacturers know that we're SICK AND TIRED of being treated like redheaded stepchildren. You could even target a particular manufacturer. In fact, you could take this to higher levels...something like, "Don't buy HP laptops at Circuit City until HP sells an OEM Linux laptop." Organization wouldn't have to be perfect, and you could still buy an HP laptop. HP doesn't suffer, but they receive grief from Circuit City and maybe move on the idea. It's farfetched, but it's better than sitting around with a thumb up the butt and whining like babies. In regards to the original discussion, I use PCLOS. It's the best I've found, and I think people would have such an easy time using this that they'd leave Windows behind. I used Windows a lot for making DVDs (bootleg concerts and such for my private collection and for friends...nothing pirated) and I really missed that in Linux. But with PCLOS, I have ManDVD in the repos and it works great. As easy as anything in Windows and free as in liberated beer. I refuse to use something (a Mac) that, with the equivalent funds, I can buy or purchase 2-3 hog PCs to run whatever on. I admit that Macs are nice, but I can't see that they are worth the price, especially since they are running on regular PC hardware now. I may well purchase a PS3 now that I can get Yellow Dog to run on it. I hope Sony offers some support in that regard. It looks like a winner. As for OEM Linux, I am looking closely at System76. They may be setting themselves up to be a Linux version of Apple, selling the hardware and the OS together, married and running smoothly. I wish them luck, and when funds allow I'll be getting a laptop from them. That's already been decided (big fan of Ubuntu), it's just a matter of money. I don't want the average user to run Linux perfectly without thought. People should think about things. |
| jimf Oct 17, 2006 5:42 PM EDT |
> No, I don't think it'd be that bad Yeah, it is.. > I use PCLOS. Well, too bad, from now on we all have to use Debian :) Think that will work? |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 18, 2006 2:32 AM EDT |
Now you're just being sarcastic. Hitting at someone's distro is a very personal thing...few people give a crap about the brand card they buy, just the chip. It's not apples to apples...in fact, it's not even fruit to fruit. |
| jimf Oct 18, 2006 9:34 AM EDT |
Well, I am being sarcastic, but only to make a point. And a valid one at that. People are very brand oriented in choice of equipment, perhaps not as much as their Linux Distro, and perhaps not for valid reasons, but still very wedded to it. If you aren't then you are far more unique than you think. My take is that, few if any are going to follow your boycott guidelines, especially using what amounts to a rather convoluted plan. Getting people to work in unison is far more difficult than that. |
| dcparris Oct 18, 2006 2:28 PM EDT |
jimf: I think this is something that he has been toying with in his mind, and just sharing it to get opinions. I really don't see it working all that well myself. It's a nice thought though. :-) |
| jimf Oct 18, 2006 2:36 PM EDT |
As I said Don "The idea is great, as far as it goes". |
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