Quite right too.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| salparadise Aug 23, 2006 1:14 AM EDT |
I wonder how we English would cope if the internet was in Spanish or Chinese or some other non native language. With bad grace and a lot of moaning probably. |
| dinotrac Aug 23, 2006 1:35 AM EDT |
sal - I'm afraid your post doesn't match your forum topic. Implicit in your comment is the realization that people tend not to communicate as comfortably or as well in their second or third language. Heck - It doesn't even have to be different languages. You've seen it here on lxer between people of different ages, regions, countries (english-speaking), political experiences, etc. Here's what I read from the blog entry: A German writer sniveling that "Gee, you english-speakers have everything your own way, anyway, what more could you want? Screw you." My interpretation is reinforced by his description of native language communities helping to spread OO around the world while uptake in english speaking nations lags. Maybe, just maybe, there are elements to the english in OpenOffice that aren't as smooth and as clear and as direct as native english-speakers would make them. Maybe not. His dismissive attitude, however, strikes me as highly suspicious. |
| jdixon Aug 23, 2006 3:14 AM EDT |
> I wonder how we English would cope if the internet was in Spanish or Chinese or some other non native language. Simply by rewritig all of the documents in English and making all of our own webpages in English, of course. Though I think you mean English speakers, and not English. I have no idea how the folks of England would handle things. :) That said, I agree that there is no need for a English Native Language project within the confines of the Open Office organization. The English speaking community is large enough to handle this on its own without the active encouragement and support of OpenOffice.org. Whether it will bother to do so is another matter, as the English support in OpenOffice.org is probably "good enough". That said, a couple of his points are debatable: > Since when english is the minority language? English is the widest spread language on the planet, but it is not the native lanaguage of most people. It is probably not the language spoken by the most people (that would probably be one of the versions of Chinese), and Spanish is almost as widely spead as English. > I'm blogging in english. Yes, but not particularly well. English is rather obviously NOT his native language. :) This is not meant as an insult. His English is far better than even my Spanish, which is the only other language I even try to speak, but it is nontheless true, and I'm not certain he realizes just how obvious it is. Simply reading his blog post makes it clear to a native English speaker why this issue exists. > A German writer sniveling that "Gee, you english-speakers have everything your own way, anyway, what more could you want? Screw you." Well, more like "You have your own toys, go play with them". Which is true. We do and we should. So, rather than working within the OpenOffice.org framework, if people really want a Native English version of OpenOffice.org, we should simply make one. I'm not sure the current team would actually appreciate the results, as it would effectively be forking the code, but that's their problem. |
| Libervis Aug 23, 2006 3:31 AM EDT |
Quoting:> I'm blogging in english. French. :) My native language is Croatian, but I'm totally anglicanized. That's just the way I chose it, pretty much, working internationally. |
| dinotrac Aug 23, 2006 4:37 AM EDT |
>So, rather than working within the OpenOffice.org framework, if people really want a Native English version of OpenOffice.org, we should simply make one. That's fine. My reaction was simply to the attitude of the blogger. Somebody who is actually interested in the proliferation of OO might at least give more than the back of his hand to the notion that english and native english aren't exactly the same. Now..if you don't mind, I need to duck out for a tin of biscuits. It's a little tricky because some wanker broke the lift. Y'all understand where I'm coming from, right? |
| salparadise Aug 23, 2006 5:42 AM EDT |
Quoting:Now..if you don't mind, I need to duck out for a tin of biscuits. It's a little tricky because some w****r broke the lift. That's not English it's slang or Slanglish for want of a better term. English people might understand it but english-speakers wouldn't. (Proof of which your use of the "w" word, which is very rude in England). Your argument (if I understand it right) would be fine if in England we called Tool bars "option lists" and there was widespread confusion as to just what a Tool bar really is. It's quite different to speak an entirely different language where there is no word "tool" or "bar". The OO interface is already in English, demanding special attention because Americans can't spell colour, neighbour and so on is time wasting and silly. We know what color is, it's just annoying that it's got the u missing. |
| SFN Aug 23, 2006 6:02 AM EDT |
From now on, everything with an English interface should be done in "native English". That way we Americans can claim that we want a "native American" translation and we can get everything in Apache. mv complaint.lang-native /dev/null |
| dinotrac Aug 23, 2006 6:47 AM EDT |
Sal - I really have no argument. I just think the blogger had no argument either, except for resentment. |
| jimf Aug 23, 2006 7:11 AM EDT |
> His dismissive attitude, however, strikes me as highly suspicious. I got that too, but maybe it just got lost in translation. > A German writer sniveling that "Gee, you english-speakers have everything your own way, anyway, what more could you want? Screw you." I've seen Germans adapt this 'curt' attitude before and believe part of it is just cultural, though, it comes off as being quite rude in English. > if people really want a Native English version of OpenOffice.org, we should simply make one. Absolutely. > would be fine if in England we called Tool bars "option lists" That would make sense anyway. To my knowledge the term 'Tool bar' is Microsofteze, and has nothing to do with either English language, or the English. Maybe we should adapt that one in Linux just to piss off MS. |
| jdixon Aug 23, 2006 7:30 AM EDT |
Libervis: > My native language is Croatian, but I'm totally anglicanized. That's just the way I chose it, pretty much, working internationally. Yes, your English usage is generally excellent, and far superior to his. Of course, being what I consider only a semi-literate inhabitant of Appalachia, some folks wouldn't consider English to be my native langauge either, so what do I know :). But at least I know that potatoe is a perfectly valid (if somewhat archaic) variant spelling of potato, unlike our mainstream media (largely meaningless political reference for those who aren't familiar with it). |
| dinotrac Aug 23, 2006 7:47 AM EDT |
jdixon - > meaningless political reference for those who aren't familiar with it Hey! No Quayle hunting allowed! Another one I liked, but I've completely forgotten the whos, whats whens, wheres, and whys came in response to a republican campaign that suggested more and better orphanages, more facilities like Boy's Town. At least one newspaper (and one Democrat politician in a news conference, as I recall) derided the statement as a reference to fiction. Except, of course, that Boys' Town is a real place that has helped an awful lot of troubled young people get their lives back on track. |
| jdixon Aug 23, 2006 8:12 AM EDT |
> Except, of course, that Boys' Town is a real place that has helped an awful lot of troubled young people get their lives back on track. Yeah. My wife still gets upset when she remembers that one. |
| dek Aug 23, 2006 8:35 AM EDT |
> Boys' Town is a real place . . . However, to be precise, the disconnect was between the Movie "Boys Town" and the Boy's Town of today. The Boy's Town of today uses residential housing -- the Boy's Town of the Movie (which was filmed in the fifties -- I believe) portrayed the old barracks style of housing. From the context, it wasn't clear which style the politician referred to. Obviously, the press picked up the movie as the most available image and had their yucks about that. My feeling is that the movie was an overly idealized depiction of the real place but that can be debated. It is true that Boy's Town has helped an enormous number of people. It's just that it wasn't clear what the politician was referring to or if the politician cared that much about what he was referring to or if he was blowing smoke. Don K. |
| perseis Aug 23, 2006 8:55 AM EDT |
> Since when english is the minority language? If you live in Texas. |
| dinotrac Aug 23, 2006 9:05 AM EDT |
>It's just that it wasn't clear what the politician was referring to or if the politician cared that much about what he was referring to or if he was blowing smoke. And, you know, in a world with a free and responsible press doing the job that journalists claim to do, you'd think that they might raise the real and serious questions instead of deriding the suggestions. What got lost in the shuffle was the original issue: children who were not being cared for. |
| djohnston Aug 23, 2006 7:29 PM EDT |
"> Since when english is the minority language? If you live in Texas." Hay, I useta live in Texus and I resent that implicashun. Y'all here me? |
| jimf Aug 23, 2006 8:41 PM EDT |
Honestly, colloquialism is one of America's most endearing qualities :D. |
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