more than they can chew
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 7:21 AM EDT |
A good interview Scott. I know we've discussed this project before. The Engineers and engineering involved are quite impressive. We'd all like to see them succeed, but, I keep wondering if they've bitten off more than they can chew. As your interview points out, actual production is going to run in the millions, and a million $ is still quite a figure, even in these inflated times. I despair that a viable retail product from the project will ever see the light of day. |
| theosib Aug 18, 2006 8:12 AM EDT |
How hard is it to get millions of dollars? That depends. Perhaps OGD1 is unlikely to sell enough units in a short period of time to fund the ASIC development. But even a moderately-well selling product will attract a lot of attention. It's not sales that they need then--it's business partners who themselves have millions of dollars. The OGP may not have a chip yet, but they have graphics expertise and the ability to develop graphics technology. That in and of itself is valuable. Worst case, they'll need to develop other sorts of products for a while, products that would typically retail for enough to warrant shipping a final product that is FPGA-based. Eventually, the products and total revenue would add up to the point where they could afford to produce ASICs. You only bite off more than you can chew when you have absolutely no idea how much to bite off. :) |
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 8:18 AM EDT |
> You only bite off more than you can chew when you have absolutely no idea how much to bite off. :) I doubt they do. Those millions are dependant on investors. Know anyone with a few mil, who want to invest in a Linux (only) board. I say 'only' beause that's what the market will see it as. |
| theosib Aug 18, 2006 8:34 AM EDT |
Actually, the primary market for the TRV10 ASIC is the "high-end embedded" space. This includes single-board computers and fixed installations like mall kiosks. That is what investors will see. In this space, the TRV10 will have superior performance, lower cost, and the only free and well-documented development kit. A number of people interested in this, who have dealt with embedded graphics processors before, have mentioned that it can be a nightmare getting some vendors' chips to work. In addition to paying for each chip, you pay a bundle for their documentation and have to sign an NDA. The documentation tends to be very poor, and when you run into a problem, the vendors are often unable or unwilling to help. By contrast, the TRV10 dev kit is free, and it's supported by an active community of people who want it to succeed, so they want to help. You should give the people working on this some sort of credit for having thought of these problems and identified solutions, rather than assuming they're idiots who can't possibly succeed... just because you think it can't. Somehow, the OGD1 designers have managed to design and build hardware with absolutely no funding, doing it in their free time. If they're so foolish, how do you explain this? Also, most Linux users I've met have a strong "can do" spirit. They believe that GNU/Linux is the greatest thing, their Free Software philosophy is the right thing, and they will ultimately prevail against the evils of proprietary software. With enough people behind it, the OGP will succeed by sheer force of will. With the top graphics vendors refusing to release documentation so we can write open source drivers, the OGP is, to many, the only way to take back control of their computers. You might benefit from adopting that philosophy. |
| dinotrac Aug 18, 2006 9:02 AM EDT |
>With enough people behind it, the OGP will succeed by sheer force of will. Sheer force of will doesn't pay for anything. Back to reality -- For engineers, engineering is the easy part, even when it's hard. Raising money ain't that easy. |
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 9:20 AM EDT |
> You should give the people working on this some sort of credit for having thought of these problems and identified solutions, rather than assuming they're idiots who can't possibly succeed... just because you think it can't. Somehow, the OGD1 designers have managed to design and build hardware with absolutely no funding, doing it in their free time. Now you're way off base theosib. As I said, I admire these guys very much as engineers. I'm just concerned about the production end of it all. You really should read more carefully before you spout off. |
| theosib Aug 18, 2006 9:21 AM EDT |
You're right. Force of will alone doesn't pay for anything. But it is the motivating force behind doing the hard work required to conduct business. In order to succeed, you need contacts, potential buyers, resellers, advertizing, business partners, and a whole spectrum of other things. And you get these things by finding the people who DO have money and convincing them that your ideas can make them MORE money. Trust me, the people with the OGP have no shortage of outside corporate interest. Oh, and you also spend a lot of money out of your own pocket, generally making your family very nervous. Raising money is a huge pain in the ass. It takes more work than you can possibly imagine if you haven't done it before. It's something you have to be on top of every day, never missing an opportunity. Seemingly inconsequential emails can turn into huge opportunities, but you have to carefully consider them all. Never lose a phone number. When you are introduced to someone at an interested company, you have to work with them to work your way up the ladder to the right people. Never miss a media opportunity. For those who would buy your product, don't let them forget you. Oh, and one of the most effective things to do is delegate some of this to other people who believe in your cause. You won't believe who you'll eventually get to meet. If you're friendly, dedicated, focused, capable, and ethical, you'll get nothing but positive response. Keep trying. Perhaps eventually, you'll come up with an argument they haven't thought of, and your efforts will turn into a valuable contribution. |
| theosib Aug 18, 2006 9:34 AM EDT |
> Now you're way off base theosib. As I said, I admire these guys very much as engineers. I'm just concerned about the production end of it all. > You really should read more carefully before you spout off. I apologize if I came across poorly, but you seem to be missing what I'm responding to. It's not your lack of concern or lack of understanding. I just don't see this as an appropriate forum for voicing those concerns. The Open Graphics Mailing List is. If you have a valid concern to raise, raise it with the people who need to fix it! The OGP is moving forward quite steadily. The founders and volunteers have hashed and rehashed all of the problems you bring up. They know what they're up against, and they're doing everything they can to make it happen. Within the next couple of months, they'll have a product ready for sale, proving that they can accomplish something tangible. People who don't know about the OGP will read this article. Then they'll read the comments. And they'll read your comment. There are some who will think you speak with authority, and your comment implies that you know they haven't worked through certain very basic problems. You are concerned. Well, thank you. OGP developers are MUCH more concerned than you are. If you think the OGP is important and you feel you have something to contribute, bad-mouthing them on a news forum is not going to help anyone. Readers of this forum are not stupid, but if the first thing they see are negative comments (and the positive ones require more effort to find), what do you think is going to be their first impression? Are you TRYING to cause trouble? Me, I'm just trying to do damage control (and I admit that I'm probably doing it very poorly). I think the reason I'm making a big deal out of this is that I'm personally offended, very deeply. You've said things that can do nothing but cause harm. And you seem to feel justified in that. I don't get it. |
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 9:45 AM EDT |
theosib: A simple 'we are in the successful process of procuring investment capital' would have answered the whole thing... Keep it in house if you prefer. On the other hand, It might be wise to just give press releases rather than interviews if you don't want the project discussed publicly. Anyway, I'm out of it... Good luck in your endeavor. |
| dinotrac Aug 18, 2006 9:47 AM EDT |
>I think the reason I'm making a big deal out of this is that I'm personally offended, very deeply. You've said things that can do nothing but cause harm. And you seem to feel justified in that. I don't get it. It's called discourse. Discourse requires being able to express yourself civilly, but freely. I saw nothing offensive in jimf's posts. He expressed pessimism that the project will lead to an actual consumer product. That's called expressing an opinion. This happens to be a forum, and fora are places where people express opinions, so I guess he actually IS justified in the civil expression of his opinion. Lighten up. |
| theosib Aug 18, 2006 9:53 AM EDT |
Ok. Fair enough. You've made your points. I've made mine, and I think by now, I've taken more than my fair share of attention away from other people's opinions. Sorry about all the fuss. BTW, I would LOVE to say, "we are in the successful process of procuring investment capital," but often times, those who invest require non-disclosure. |
| dinotrac Aug 18, 2006 10:18 AM EDT |
theo -- Well, I hope you (they, whoever) get it. It's important that we don't overplay the difficulty. People laying out big money have big questions and make big demands, but it gets done every day. Make a compelling case that they can make a profit that justifies the risk, and someboy will pony up the dough. |
| Scott_Ruecker Aug 18, 2006 10:25 AM EDT |
jimf: As your interview points out, actual production is going to run in the millions, and a million $ is still quite a figure, even in these inflated times. I despair that a viable retail product from the project will ever see the light of day. Don't despair goodguy, there all kinds of ways to raise cash, all kinds. Its just a matter of having everything in place to take advantage of it. It looks like they have everything in place..exept the cash. :-) |
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 10:33 AM EDT |
> all kinds of ways to raise cash, all kinds jimf/ sees Scott donning mask and checking his clip as he enters the bank :) |
| Scott_Ruecker Aug 18, 2006 10:42 AM EDT |
See..you do understand me..its not bad if you don't get caught. Right? ;-) |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!