Did you ever have to make up your mind?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dinotrac Jul 25, 2006 9:49 AM EDT |
With apologies for those too young to recognize the Lovin' Spoonful reference... At some point, you have to decide what's important to you. Do you care about seeing Linux pre-installed on more computers? If so, don't buy Windows boxes with the intention of installing Linux. Put yourself in Michael Dell's shoes for a minute. Hey!! Ignore the nice leather and supple feel -- we've got serious things to discus... If Linux users are going to buy your computers anyway, why would you bother to offer the option? I can't think of a single reason. If, however, offering Linux generates enough business to compensate for the cost of offering it (and yes -- it does cost money to offer more options), then you have a reason to do so. PS -- I hear all of this "extra cost" BS. That may be true if you stay within Dell, but several vendors offer very inexpensive Linux PCs. You don't have to pay more to avoid Windows. |
| Sander_Marechal Jul 25, 2006 10:03 AM EDT |
Quoting:If Linux users are going to buy your computers anyway, why would you bother to offer the option? That's why refunds work. It costs the vendor more than the License costs alone. But I fear that many, many more people will need to ask for refunds before they start taking notice of it. |
| sbergman27 Jul 25, 2006 10:11 AM EDT |
Dean, I was doing really well having my customers buy Microtel boxes for use as X terminals with Linux pre-installed from Amazon for $199. But then it just got to where I couldn't compete on price. They started coming to me showing me how they could buy Dells with Windows cheaper. How is that possible? Well, you have to look at the whole package. The Microtels don't come with a monitor. So the price really works out to $300+ up front if you go with a cheap CRT. My customers find these specials at Dell where they can get a *nice* Pentium 4 with twice the memory, a much better warranty, and (drum roll please) a nice 15" flat panel with Dell's name on it for $399. (And the whole thing just looks *much* nicer.) Granted, the memory and P4 don't really help on an X Terminal. But the flat panel does. And I can't match that price with a flat panel with *anyone's* name on it. (And what if it is a standalone PC and not an X Terminal? The memory and P4 are very significant, then.) I still convert them to my own custom installation of CentOS as X Terminals. But a PC that comes with Windows is still a much better deal than anything I can offer with Linux or no OS pre-installed. Chaps my hide, but it's true. |
| tuxchick2 Jul 25, 2006 10:23 AM EDT |
I'm very curious about the real financial shenanigans behind windows pricing. Like what kind of kickbacks is Dell getting to make windoze PCs such a good deal? Or is it just typical Microsoft strongarming that elevates the prices on non-Windows PCs? Maybe hardware vendors throw some inducements into the pot as well, to get their cheap useless Win-poo parts in Dell systems. I would really like to see meaningful options, like starting out with hardware package A. One price. Add operating system, add cost. Upgrades, add whatever. Nice and clearcut, so you know exactly what you're paying for. As it is, Dell is playing a big ole deceitful shell game. |
| NoDough Jul 25, 2006 10:27 AM EDT |
I've never thought about it until today, but I have never purchased a PC for myself or my family with Windows pre-installed. All of our PCs have been custom-built by yours truly. :-) Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for PCs purchased for my clients and/or employers. |
| wind0wsr3fund Jul 25, 2006 11:21 AM EDT |
Many of us build our barebones servers and desktops. This approach does not solve the problem since it is completely outside the means of Joe User and can not be applied to laptops. In addition, the many parts which compose the whitebox generic can not compete with the marketing dollars of providers pushing "all in one" solutions. This "whitebox" response is a common mistake made by people who don't quite understand the true scope of the problem. |
| dinotrac Jul 25, 2006 11:25 AM EDT |
>This "whitebox" response is a common mistake It is not remotely a mistake, and is not the only answer, as a number of vendors do sell Linux boxes. It is a mistake to think you will change a Dell's mind without an economic club. As to bargain basement Dell bundles -- Hey Steve!!! Sometime ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Everybody's heard of Dell, and you can't see the cut corners from the outside. |
| jkouyoumjian Jul 25, 2006 11:45 AM EDT |
The Dell model makes money by including all sorts of stuff from third parties who pay Dell for the privilege. That will never work for Linux because everything is already freely available. There is no one who is going to pay Dell to include 3rd party software pre-configured with Linux. The Linux community would reject it anyway. To sell Linux with hardware, you have to charge enough to make money off the hardware alone. I don't think Dell can do that. |
| Sander_Marechal Jul 25, 2006 12:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:Many of us build our barebones servers and desktops. This approach does not solve the problem since it is completely outside the means of Joe User and can not be applied to laptops. 1) I build by own kit for more reasons than just dodging the Windows tax. Pre-built PC's hardly ever come with the hardware that I'm looking for. Building myself is cheaper than a standard PC + the upgrades I'd need. 2) There are plenty of shops that will build to spec for Joe Average. The problem is that joe Average doesn't know what to choose if given a free hand. 3) You can build your own laptop (but it's a lot harder than building desktops) Quoting:To sell Linux with hardware, you have to charge enough to make money off the hardware alone. Commercial Linux vendors can. Linux vendor pays for installs and makes money off end-user support. Or HW vendor installs Linux for free and outsources all the OS support to the Linux vendor (lowerering the support costs for the HW vendor) |
| grouch Jul 25, 2006 12:56 PM EDT |
In support of tuxchick2's point, see http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/65762/index.html I've heard Dell described as an eclectic combination of the least expensive hardware that will survive the warranty period, just coasting on former reputation. I wouldn't know first-hand because I haven't purchased a new computer with an OS installed in many years. When I need a computer, I pick out the components based on compatibility, quality, standards, price and vendor. Compatibility: If it doesn't work with GNU/Linux, without some closed driver, it's pure scrap. Landfills don't need me buying new scrap. Quality: A computer should be serviceable for at least 5 years. The most important part of a computer is *my* data; I don't want to risk a single byte of it due to skimping on hardware to pay for a logo or the MS tax. Standards: Standardized components are replaceable. Custom components (see Compaq power supplies of some years ago) are a trap. Price: It's a highly competitive market, but it is also cluttered with junk. The bottom of the barrel priced part might be the most expensive in the long run. Vendor: If a vendor promotes Microsoft, they're eliminated from my list. No special offer overrides that. Promoting Microsoft is advocating the single biggest threat to computer users in the world. I consider an online vendor to be promoting Microsoft if I see any form of .asp in the address, any ASP* cookie is attempted, or even if Netcraft shows IIS or MS. I still find enough quality vendors to pick and choose my components. (This applies for all other purchases online, too. I've bought everything from a replacement seal for an air compressor to a carrier bearing for an old Volvo online without violating that policy). |
| jdixon Jul 25, 2006 2:23 PM EDT |
sbergman27: > But a PC that comes with Windows is still a much better deal than anything I can offer with Linux or no OS pre-installed. Don't forget to compare Dell's N series to their normal computers when pricing. They're available without Windows. You have to select at least small business and then open source desktops to get to them, so they're well hidden. |
| grouch Jul 25, 2006 3:35 PM EDT |
>"Many of us build our barebones servers and desktops. This approach does not solve the problem since it is completely outside the means of Joe User and can not be applied to laptops." 'All my own work!' -- 9 y.o. builds her own Linux box. http://www.lesbell.com.au/FamilyWeb.nsf/3cf90a23430db5a98525... |
| pogson Jul 25, 2006 6:07 PM EDT |
sbergman27, One thing you can offer that Dell cannot with Windows is multi-seat X. I have just ordered parts to make a thin client out of an AMD64. It has a gigabit/s interface. It has five PCI slots. I put in one AGP and five PCI video cards and I can make a six-seater. With Linux you can do this. I haven't heard of anyone doing it with Windows. If you make a thick client this way, it costs perhaps, $700 for a complete box but, averaged over six users, it is way less than $200 per seat. With the gigabit/s interface, you can really move video from a server. As for monitors, last week prices of LCDs fell to Earth. So did the AMD64 this weekend. It is a great time to be buying hardware and putting Linux to work on it. The less expensive and more powerful the hardware, the more conspicuous the stuck price of Windows becomes. |
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