why not just learn to spell
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick2 Jun 26, 2006 1:53 PM EDT |
It a noise me that sew many people are incapable of learning the basics of their own freakin' language. The purr vase eve use of computer spell Czech cyst ems is proof that Amurrica is doomed. |
| richo123 Jun 26, 2006 1:57 PM EDT |
Tuxchick, Y doo u hayte Amerka? |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 2:00 PM EDT |
I resemble that :D A decent spellcheck for xchat is at the top of my wish list! |
| tuxchick2 Jun 26, 2006 2:24 PM EDT |
richo, only the parts that can't figure out how to use loose/lose, and who have no idea where to put apostrophes. |
| dcparris Jun 26, 2006 3:15 PM EDT |
When I was doing research on racial issues several years back, I ran across the web site of a supremacist couple who were home schooling their children to keep them away from "those other people". When I saw the homework samples of spelling and such they offered up as "proof" of their genetic superiority, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. I assume their kids couldn't spell because their parents had taught them. Needless to say, they were their own proof that their belief in racial superiority is problematic. |
| r_a_trip Jun 26, 2006 3:19 PM EDT |
Never mind the ESL people... They might find spell-checking valuable, since they are trying to communicate in a foreign language... (/me is one of them). |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 3:39 PM EDT |
If god had meant people to spell, he would never have given them english!... Ahh... or airplanes... Something like that :(. |
| Scott_Ruecker Jun 26, 2006 3:56 PM EDT |
I agree that there are many that could stand to take a grammar class or two but I will say that I think that I have 'fairly' decent spelling but then again I always have a dictionary or the like near me when I write. Asking people to spell better without letting them use a tool to help them spell better is like asking someone to speak a language better without letting them listen to others speak it. If giving someone a spell checker means that they will actually use it and 'maybe' learn how to spell a word or two correctly along the way is fine by me. The only way to discover new words is to either be exposed to them or look them up. It helps if you use them too, but I don't want to tell you how to live.. ;-) |
| hkwint Jun 26, 2006 3:59 PM EDT |
English is not that bad after all. Try German (or better, don't. English doesn't even have a separate word to explain the most difficult part of German language! It's called 'case', but most of you English speaking people won't understand what it means anyway). French has a lot of apostrophes (far too much), Dutch is also very difficult (not for me, ahum)... As I discovered yesterday, Chinese doesn't even have tenses, and characters are sometimes simplified to teach Chinese to us stupid people from the west. Only Spanish seems to be not-so-complicated (from what I heard). Spell checking does generate a false feeling of correctness by the way, all this word is good apart each other from, but sentence the sucks. Oh, there's a simple answer to the question "why not learn to spell": Spelling control was cheaper. |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 4:09 PM EDT |
> If giving someone a spell checker means that they will actually use it and 'maybe' learn how to spell a word or two correctly along the way is fine by me. Exactly. I've found spell checkers improved my spelling immensely.... Until I hosted an IRC Linux support channel. Then it all went to hell ;-). > The only way to discover new words is to either be exposed to them or look them up. It helps if you use them too, but I don't want to tell you how to live.. One problem there. Knowing and using a word doesn't necessarily mean one can spell it. |
| dinotrac Jun 26, 2006 4:27 PM EDT |
jimf - I didn't feel too bad about people who can't spell until I heard about spelling bees. If THEY can spell... |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 4:43 PM EDT |
Naw... you're not gonna make me feel guilty over that. Heck, that's the alternate use for the Dictionary that I carried religiously through high school and college. Swatting bees was added value then. Now it's become a single purpose tool. |
| peragrin Jun 26, 2006 5:00 PM EDT |
It's actually the only reason why I use safari as my primary browser.(the lack of extensions for and the annoying bookmarks keep me from liking Safari) Actually it's a nice feature of OS X in general is a system wide spell checker. included even in x-Chat-aqua. the majority of my spelling mistakes are errors by touch typing to fast. When I do stumble on a word though it makes life easy trying to look it up and learn it. I don't know if it's has helped me a whole lot, but it can't be hurting. KDE could do something similar with Konq. Firefox has extensions but they aren't being maintained. |
| dcparris Jun 26, 2006 5:07 PM EDT |
I could probably improve my productivity by 10-20% using a spellchecker. I just forget to use the dag-blamed thing. |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 5:18 PM EDT |
> I just forget to use the dag-blamed thing. Opera has had spellcheck for at least a year now. I didn't realize that it was there until a friend told me... Duhh... Anyway, it took very little time to make using it a habit, and a worthwhile one. Actually, firefox has had an aspell plugin for some time now, so, this is really nothing new. Oh, and to tuxchick's original 'why not just learn to spell'... Why should you care as long as it's spelled correctly when you see it? |
| tuxchick2 Jun 26, 2006 5:59 PM EDT |
Why should you care as long as it's spelled correctly when you see it? jimf, because most things aren't. You can't trust spellcheckers, as my post attempted to demonstrate. Or did you think it was OK? :) I see errors all the time, and it's getting worse. I think commercial publications don't even bother with real human proofreaders anymore, and ordinary folks are just blindly trusting the spellcheckers. Call me crazy, but I have this bizarre notion that people should be fluent in their native tongue, and I don't see that spellcheckers are helping. If they were, users would get to the point where they rarely needed them. But that's not happening. |
| dinotrac Jun 26, 2006 6:02 PM EDT |
tuxchick - Hey crazy lady... What next? Schools that teach? People who read when there's nothing good on TV? People who read when there IS something good on TV? There's a place for people like you, and I think it's just outside Minnetonka. |
| jdixon Jun 26, 2006 6:10 PM EDT |
> richo, only the parts that can't figure out how to use loose/lose,... I used to have a example I kept around for that, but I loosed it. > ...and who have no idea where to put apostrophes. My wife is an English major. She's more than willing to tell me where to put my apostrophes, so I don't have to worry about it. |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 6:13 PM EDT |
> jimf, because most things aren't. You can't trust spellcheckers, as my post attempted to demonstrate. Or did you think it was OK? :) Lol, did you run it through spellcheck? > I don't see that spellcheckers are helping Sorry, but that's just nuts. You are basically saying that computers can't teach you anything, and, I know that isn't true. |
| dcparris Jun 26, 2006 6:31 PM EDT |
> Call me crazy, but I have this bizarre notion that people should be fluent in their native tongue, O.k. You're crazy. > Sorry, but that's just nuts. You are basically saying that computers can't teach you anything, and, I know that isn't true. But will you learn what the computer teaches you? I think that's more along Carla's thinking. |
| jimf Jun 26, 2006 6:50 PM EDT |
I do, but I can't speak for others Don :). If that is what Carla's thinking, then, I think the problem goes far beyond just spelling. |
| moopst Jun 26, 2006 11:53 PM EDT |
KDE could do something similar with Konq. ========= Konqueror has done spell checking since about 3.1. It turns unknown words red in the dialog box and you can right click within the dialog box for suggestions. |
| phubert Jun 27, 2006 3:47 AM EDT |
Apparently schools haven't been teaching SPELLING for some time now, judging by what is so commonly seen in even professional (that is, hired or paid) articles by so-called journalists, let alone comments and blogs! However, I tried dropping the saved Spellbound XPI ONTO Firefox 1.5.0.x and it and its associated library install and run without complaint! Hasn't anyone else tried this????? There are two primary reasons for a spellchecker: (1) those words you just seem to get wrong and (2) bloody typing errors And autocorrect is ALWAYS the best! :-) ** I am likely at the very least one of the 'elder' participants here, but has anyone noticed that even the alert and vitial elderly tend to, at least now & then, spell by word SOUND (I won't say 'phonetically' as that isn't strictly the case)? And, I'm afraid I've caught myself doing just that on occasion. Spellcheckers are a convenience, especially when it comes to (my) typing errors (which are frequent). Now, if the darned things would catch my punctuation as well!!! Do they train us over time? I think so. At least they do if we pay any attention! Unfortunately, the Internet has made so many things so immediate, when do we allow ourselves to slow down enough TO notice??? Not nearly as often as we did when typewriters were the tool?? |
| Scott_Ruecker Jun 27, 2006 4:35 AM EDT |
I think the issue is that the size of the average persons vocabulary is getting smaller by the generation. I am not 'that' old, but even in my time on this rock I have noticed that the level of grammar and vocabulary used has gotten simpler and smaller. Its like '1984', if we make the dictionary smaller it will be easier to use, right? :-) |
| richo123 Jun 27, 2006 6:48 AM EDT |
Tuxchick,
I ran your OP through my abiword spell check and amusingly enough it left everything in place apart from: freakin' Amurrica Must be a Froydian slip there ;-) |
| TPuffin Jun 27, 2006 9:39 AM EDT |
Gah. I'm a grammer policeman by nature (got my badge here somewhere...) and the sad state of English these days annoys me to no end. Stuff like its v. it's your v. you're lose v. loose they're v. their two v. too v. to and the notion that you somehow make a noun plural by adding an apostrophe-s: "There were too many mascot's at the ball game." Note that not one of these would be caught by an ordinary spell-checker. I suggest compentency as the solution, though I often despair of seeing it. You go, tuxchick. :) Oh, and text-messaging shorthand is a whole other bucket of worms. Might be a whole other language... U no? |
| dinotrac Jun 27, 2006 9:47 AM EDT |
Tpuffin - Allow me to add one of my favortes: "I would of" vs. "I would've" Sigh. |
| hkwint Jun 27, 2006 9:49 AM EDT |
Quoting:spell by word SOUND And THAT'S when English becomes difficult (own experience). You're and your sound the same. "Saunt" and "sound" sound the same. Turtell sounds like turtle. F*ck (sometimes) sounds the same as vak. Their sounds the same as there. The Americans made it worse by lazy pronunciation: In English, there's a clear distinct between traitor and trader, but in American dialect, they sometimes sound the same. "Can't" in American dialect sounds the same as "kent". Especially for non native speakers, this can give problems. In my own country, there's the same problem. Once, some people thought of spelling words as you here them. Chocolate would going to be Sjoklat, watch would be watsj (along these lines). Nonetheless, this didn't happen. I regret it for the future children and foreign speakers, though its easier for us. To make all worse, some committee changes the spelling from time to time by making more and changing existing exceptions. |
| dinotrac Jun 27, 2006 9:53 AM EDT |
hkwint - Having spent a little time in the Netherlands, I don't see where you have much room to complain about our pronunciation!!!!!! I'm still not convinced that Dutch can be spoken without a bronchial infection. |
| hkwint Jun 27, 2006 9:55 AM EDT |
I could give the same examples in Dutch, though most people wouldn't understand ;) Nonetheless, in my experience, Dutch is more pronunciated as it is written than English (is that sentence correct?) |
| dinotrac Jun 27, 2006 11:12 AM EDT |
hk -
>is that sentence correct?) The verb would be 'pronounced', but, given the state of American English, that sentence is much more correct than many I hear in the course of a day! |
| tuxchick2 Jun 27, 2006 11:14 AM EDT |
Opiniontated person's love to add useless syllable's. |
| Sander_Marechal Jun 27, 2006 3:43 PM EDT |
I'm still not convinced that Dutch can be spoken without a bronchial infection. Funny that... I'm Dutch and I suffered from chronic bronchial infections between the ages of 4 and 10 :-) |
| TPuffin Jun 28, 2006 8:08 AM EDT |
Dinotrac - Re: "Would of" Oh, yes. Those make me want to beat my head into a wall. :( |
| dinotrac Jun 28, 2006 8:52 AM EDT |
TPuffin - I would of done it long ago, but its to painful too think about. |
| jimf Jun 28, 2006 9:25 AM EDT |
Wow... I just noticed that the latest version of xchat does have a spellcheck... Wishes do come true :). |
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