WATTABUNCHA HOOIE!!!
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dinotrac May 14, 2006 3:24 AM EDT |
So, this mope seems to think he's got enough functional grey matter to tell Linus and co. what they should be doing in the kernel, but clearly doesn't have enough to comprehend what freedom really is. First and foremost: Freedom is not a fairy tale concept. Freedom is accessable and relevant in the real world where real people live, breathe, work, and play. Freedom in the real world has limits built of necessity. In fairy tale land, freedom might mean being able to do whatever you want whenever you want. Everywhere else, reality and the freedom of others intrude. To the case at hand: Linus sets the direction for Linux and others follow. Linus has earned his position as the steward of Linux. Love him or loathe him, agree or disagree, Linux was his baby and he's done a fine job of raising it to maturity. If that weren't so, the author wouldn't even have a topic. Nobody would care what Linus thinks or does. Nobody is preventing development of a microkernel OS. The l4linux folks mentioned in the piece are trying to do exactly that with Linux. Others are free to make their own Linux flavors, just as folks like Andrew Morton and Alan Cox have done in the past (and present). For that matter, nobody is holding back development of the Hurd. Anybody hot for a microkernel OS is free to contribute time there. The reality is that there are some very good arguments against developing Linux on a microkernel, and speed is only one. Micro-kernels in practice have shown themselves to be more difficult to debug (which, ahem, might explain the Hurd). Also, there is some question of benefit...In theory, the benefit of a microkernel is that failures in one subsystem don't kill the kernel. However, the smaller and safer the kernel, the less it can do, the less it can do, the smaller the benefit of having it up. At what point do the benefits of keeping kernel alive outweigh the penalties in speed and development difficulty? Etc, etc, etc. |
| jimf May 14, 2006 9:34 AM EDT |
Every time Linus anounces a debuging cycle, some dork pops up agian with this kind of tripe. As you say dino, if these guys want a microkernel, Hurd has been around forever, even though it has yet to get it's butt up off the deck. |
| Bob_Robertson May 14, 2006 11:12 AM EDT |
Jimf, I think it's envy. The nasty green-eyed monster. The folks who just *know* that a micro-kernel is better dislike that a macro-kernel like this "Linux" upstart has gotten all the glory. My evidence for this is they way they bluster and fuss, but don't simply write a better kernel, a micro-kernel, and blow Linux off the map. Many "better" products have fallen by the way-side of history because of being beaten by marketing. The first time I saw AmigaDos, I was dumbfounded! Many people simply think their idea was better and that the only reason they were beaten _was_ marketing. That's just ego. The beauty of a free market is that it tends toward efficiency. Efficiency isn't guaranteed, of course, there will always be back-sliding, like Microsoft Bob. Truth to tell, I wish I could find a copy of Bob just to say I have one. :^) |
| jimf May 14, 2006 11:19 AM EDT |
Truth to tell, I wish I could find a copy of Bob just to say I have one. :^) I understand :D |
| jdixon May 14, 2006 11:27 AM EDT |
> My evidence for this is they way they bluster and fuss, but don't simply write a better kernel, a micro-kernel, and blow Linux off the map. Well, to be fair, there was a microkernel OS which blew the competition away years before Linux came along. Namely OS-9 (no, not the Mac one). Unfortunately, it was an 8 bit OS, and the only readily available desktop systems for it were the Tandy Color Computer line. |
| Bob_Robertson May 14, 2006 2:03 PM EDT |
Oh yeah, an acquaintance of mine had OS-9 on the CoCo, and at the time it was just as astounding as AmigaDos was a few years later. Just like when I saw a small Unix server, with dumb terminals, jumping through hoops at the company where I was putting together PC clones in 1986. It was just so much more capable than anything we were building, so why aren't we selling those? |
| dinotrac May 14, 2006 2:11 PM EDT |
Bob -- >so why aren't we selling those? You know the answer to that as well as I do: I - B - M. Back then, if you didn't know computers, you still knew Big Blue. If you didn't want to pay the freight for Big Blue boxes, you could still buy something cloned from the "blessed" systems... |
| Bob_Robertson May 14, 2006 4:34 PM EDT |
Not just that. It was *UNIX*! Something incomprehensible, expensive, and most of all didn't have any graphics and games. Games are what kept me in MS-DOS-compatible machines, games are what kept me going until 1995 when, after having used SunOS at work for 2+ years I finally heard about this "linux" thing. At the same time I took home a pre-release version of Win95, I also created a Linux desktop that did everything that the SunOS SPARC-2 did at work. Same tools, same basic structure, it was very understandable at last. I still had Win95 for games, the Linux box became a server, which went for 8 years without a crash or "theraputic reboot". It wasn't until 2000 that I went full Linux, and I was thrilled when Savage was released for Linux so I could have some "game" again that wasn't NetHack or web based turn stuff that I was never good at anyway. Although Microsoft holds the business high-ground because of Office, it's games that rule the home machine. Even my mother uses her machine mostly for Mahjong style games which, of course, were written for Windows. |
| tuxchick2 May 14, 2006 5:20 PM EDT |
pf, all this micro- vs. macro-kernel silliness is so last millennium anyway. Forward-thinking geeks are solidly behind the kernel architecture of the 21st Century: the Redenbacher kernel architecture. Everything else is obsolete in comparison to the great kernel genius Orville Redenbacher. I am treating this issue with all the seriousness it deserves. |
| dinotrac May 14, 2006 5:36 PM EDT |
tc - Mmmmmmmmmm. Redenbacher kernel(s). Popped to perfection. Perfect mate to fried twinkies with cheese. Wait...hold on...gotta defib. There. That's better. At least the popcorn is healthy. I'm sure the butter doesn't matter. |
| jdixon May 14, 2006 5:38 PM EDT |
> Everything else is obsolete in comparison to the great kernel genius Orville Redenbacher. Yes, but that merely shifts the arguments higher up the stack. The flame wars now concern hot air or oil. |
| Bob_Robertson May 15, 2006 10:35 AM EDT |
Aren't most flame wars just hot air anyway? |
| dinotrac May 15, 2006 10:57 AM EDT |
Bob-- Especially if there's a little oil involved... |
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