engaging the brain 'before' making a decision?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jimf Mar 26, 2006 6:49 AM EDT |
Let me get this straight... The guy's story is that : 1. He knows he is running Linux 2. He goes to buy a new printer, but, 3. doesn't check that there is a print driver. 4. He is then disappointed that he can't get the printer to work. 5. He concludes that Linux is somehow defective. Also note that his printer driver is indeed available in cups Sheesh... What FUD. |
| richo123 Mar 26, 2006 6:56 AM EDT |
6. Asks on a linux community forum about his printer. Receives friendly detailed advice on installing ppd files using kprinter the same day. Installs printer successfully and then shreds FUD. I know! It is wishful thinking on my part. |
| jimf Mar 26, 2006 8:02 AM EDT |
Well, the guy 'claims' to be IT. I wish he would do his homework before he goes 'expressing his opinion'. |
| jdixon Mar 26, 2006 8:09 AM EDT |
> He goes to buy a new printer, but, No, from the article, he already owned the printer before he tried linux. However, I agree that it's an extemely poor attempt to bash linux. Lots of equipment that was well supported under Win9x doesn't work under Windows XP. How many articles do we get claiming XP isn't ready for the desktop and recommending the use of Win9x instead? |
| richo123 Mar 26, 2006 8:57 AM EDT |
Well just out of curiosity I downloaded the said reverse engineered driver and checked out the instructions. It looks entirely straighforward and took about 5 minutes to follow the "incredibly cryptic" instructions and install. The giveaway on this blog is how much he bitches on about tar.gz files. Obviously a very raw linux newbie. He is using Ubuntu and just a bit of patience and use of the VERY friendly community forum would have got him up to speed on targz and installation. How on earth does he expect linux distros to cover all possible printers out of the box if the printer makers keep their stuff secret and refuse to release a linux driver (as Canon does here)? CLUELESS |
| cr Mar 26, 2006 12:10 PM EDT |
This is cheering news. Five years ago, the mainstream attitude was, 'is Linux good for anything but mail and print servers?' Now they're kvetching that Linux doesn't seamlessly support everything that Windows does (ignoring the fact that Windows supports very little -- the manufacturers have to provide any specialized drivers and support utilities themselves). This is market pressure that is indirectly being brought to bear on the manufacturers who don't yet fully support the use of their equipment on Linux, warning them that just making Windows drivers available on http://www.driverguide.com won't cut it. The linked article complained about Linux, but Canon took a hit in potential-customer perception there too. |
| jimf Mar 26, 2006 1:01 PM EDT |
The real point is that there is a viable print driver in cups. There was absolutely no reason to go to a 3rd party (proprietary) driver in the first place. but in any case Stan should have done his homework before bitching and dismissing Linux. That's not even getting into the 'not always great' support for Windows devices. I clearly remember waiting 6 months for Logitech to release a W2k driver for my mouse. Ironic that when this happened, I yelled at Logitech, and not at MS. Now we blame Linux rather that the manufacturer??? The whole 'blame the Linux' thing has really gotten old. Put the blame where it belongs, on the manufacturer. Actually most printer manufactures are now supplying print drivers for Linux. Even Cannon and Lexmark are at least supplying info. But that's because of the protests of a lot of Linux customers. At least those guys are listening (unlike, for example, ATI). |
| theboomboomcars Mar 27, 2006 7:48 AM EDT |
I don't think he was bashing linux for not supporting his printer. He was complaining that in windows to install the printer driver you click on the little icon, or put the cd in, but in linux he had to go to the dreaded command line. Which for most windows users it's like asking them to overhaul the engine in their car, they have no idea where to begin. For those who have familiarity with a command line, or want to learn how the operating system works, then there is no problem there. Unfortunately I don't think that most computer users want to learn how to install a program, they just want to click on the little picture and let the computer install it. If we really want people to move from windows to linux this needs to be addressed. I like synaptic it's easy to use and there are lots of options of things to install, but it is not all inclusive. Installing the nvidia driver is a pain, and if I wasn't familiar with a computer, and wanting to learn linux I would have no idea or desire as to what the instructions were trying to tell me, or what to do when something was wrong and the install failed. I have put linux on 2 of the girls' who live upstairs from me computers, Ubuntu and Suse, they both love it. But when they need something installed I have to do it because they don't know what to do (firefox 1.5). One of them downloaded the tar file, and read the readme but couldn't figure out what to do with the instructions. But that would be her only complaint about linux. |
| jimf Mar 27, 2006 8:06 AM EDT |
That's BS theboomboomcars... Cups and the KDE printer control panel are just as easy to use as is synaptic. |
| number6x Mar 27, 2006 8:14 AM EDT |
I hope this guy sticks with Windows. It sound like he'll be happier there. If they truly are IT and cannot go to the community, or to Google to set up a printer, how will they be when they have a real problem to solve. You know like setting up apache.Eclipse/JBoss etc. Even non-unix/linux geeks in the IT community understand tar files nowadays. Java uses similar syntax for all of their .jar/.war/.ear files. Java has become the Lingua Franca today, like C or COBOL in decades past. Even our Mainframe guys play with it! If this guy is in IT, he only does one thing. My friend Joe says that there are people in IT with 21 years experience, and people with 20 1-year experience. That is, some people have done the same thing for 20 years, never learning more than they did the first year. If this guy joined the Ubuntu community, he would probably just become a "help vampire", and Ubuntu already has too many of those. (how to spot a help vampire: http://slash7.com/pages/vampires) |
| theboomboomcars Mar 27, 2006 8:24 AM EDT |
If my printer isn't recognized by default and I have to install a driver, and the vendor or other writer only offers it in a tar that has to be compiled, can I install that through the KDE printer control panel, if I can please let me know how because that sounds like very useful information. I don't have any problems with my printer, I have an hp and hp has great linux support, although it took me a while to figure out why it wouldn't print. I was disabled by default so I had to enable it to use it. But as I said, I don't mind tinkering, I actually enjoy tinkering. But the girls upstairs don't want to tinker, they just want to be able to download firefox, click on the icon that is downloaded and install it, which is not possible. Lots of people have this mentality, at least that I have encountered. I really don't think that that is BS. But if you can install a printer driver through the KDE printer control from a tar, please let me know how, or give me a link because that would be cool. Thanks. |
| Herschel_Cohen Mar 27, 2006 8:51 AM EDT |
theboomboomcars - why, what you suggest is a necessity negates one of the most important features of Linux. Much of the system is by default protected by access rights and the lack of them. When I was testing what was to become Firefox 1.5 Linux version there were installers, that seemed highly automated to me. Your friends upstairs will still need to learn about supervisor right enough to provide a su or root password. [In Ubuntu - it's your selected user's password.] Local installations for each user is not much of a problem, particularly with a single user per machine. Not having your machine stolen from you and used by others is a feature worth preserving. For those wishing no knowledge to perform these tasks might hire someone with the money saved from not purchasing only partially useful utilities that are supposed to protect your machine. |
| jimf Mar 27, 2006 8:56 AM EDT |
In Debian, If it's a brand new printer model, you may have to wait a month or two for something to appear, but just upgrading the cups package usually brings it in. With my epson cx5400 i had to go to the epson site which had rpm packages... Again a pretty simple task to convert the rpm and install the deb. That was 3 years ago, and now epson contributes debs directly to the repo. Over the years, I've gone through a lot more hoops to install hardware in Windows than in Linux, so I have very little tolerance for this argument. Most times the solution is out there and people don't look for it or just don't ask. By their very nature, computers, whether Windows or Linux, are far from the pushbuttion devices that the 'average user' 'wants' them to be, and It is still necessary to 'tinker'. IMO that may always be the case. If you want pushbutton simplicity, get a gameboy, or a toaster for that matter. Our 'IT' Stan should certainly know that. |
| theboomboomcars Mar 27, 2006 10:13 AM EDT |
jimf- Thanks for the reply, like I said I have an hp printer and it's well supported, so I haven't had to look into installing drivers, but if most drivers are in the repositories his attack is a moot point about printers. Herchel_Cohen- I am not trying to say that we should circumvent the built in security of linux with automated installers, but an installer that follows the security rules wouldn't be a bad idea. For my self I like using linux, and I enjoy answering the very few pleas for help, but if we want to get linux into mainstream computers then it needs to be easy to install basic software. Like an installer that asks for a sudo password every time in needs that type of access and explains why it needs it. It's easy and still secure. |
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