ndiswrapper is probably going to stop working soon
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| dwheeler Nov 29, 2005 8:21 AM EDT |
This is a reprint of an older article, so it doesn't mention the most important issue: ndiswrapper is almost certainly going to stop working soon. See: http://lwn.net/Articles/160138/ Why? ndiswrapper wraps around Windows NT drivers, and these drivers assume that you have at least 8K per kernel process. But the Linux kernel has been moving towards smaller 4K stacks. Fedora Core, for example, ships with 4K stacks -- you have to recompile the whole kernel to use ndiswrapper at all. The Linux kernel developers are planning to REMOVE the ability to use kernel stacks larger than 4K -- they aren't needed in the kernel, and they're very wasteful. Few kernel developers have any sympathy for ndiswrapper; most view its existence as interfering with development of native wireless drivers. Any user of ndiswrapper is automatically tainted, unsupported, and probably unsupportable (because it's impractical to support binary drivers). You're better off getting a card with native Linux drivers; the FSF has a list of wireless cards with FLOSS Linux drivers (note that they're harsh graders) at https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html . I bought a Ralink-based card, an Asus WL-107G, for $30; that's a cheap price to avoid lots of installation and support problems. |
| xombie Nov 29, 2005 9:28 AM EDT |
The Ralink cards work great. I recently bought a couple of Zonet cards that after rebate cost like $12 each. There is a new driver for the 2x series pci and usb cards under development that uses the new ieee802.11 stack in the kernel. Soon these cards will worked out of the box and be fully featured. |
| Koriel Nov 29, 2005 9:30 AM EDT |
I currently use ndiswrapper and have been using it for about 2 years now with great success on my broadcom card (its bcm43xx based) because broadcom in their infinite wisdom never saw fit to release the specs, but they have now and a native driver is on the way so hopefully i and some others i know won't be to badly affected by ndiswrapper going belly up but it was a nice bit of software and would like to wish its dev's all the best, as they saved me from haveing to fork out for another damn card. |
| tadelste Nov 29, 2005 9:42 AM EDT |
This is a touchy topic for Linux users, myself included. I've wasted some money attempting to get wireless cards that supposedly work natively to work at all. The 4K stack proposal has also been around a while. Meanwhile, you cannot just walk into a store and find new wireless cards that work most of the time. I'm using NDISWrappers in Ubuntu for one card but it doesn't work in SUSE 10. The linuxant driveloader costs $19.95 and works with a Netgear PC Card I have on my laptop. NDIS does not work with that card even though the Laptop uses Ubuntu. So, probably and soon haven't been much of a help. I've tried a card that worked for a friend of mine in his Thinkpad, but didn't work in mine. The difference: a T-20 vs a T-21 and we both use the same version of Ubuntu and the same kernel. BTW, Linuxant has a work around for the 4K stack issue. So, at least that's something worth knowing. If NDIS stops working in a newer kernel, we can always stick with an older kernel or buy the Linuxant driveloader until someone takes these card manufacturers by the neck and shakes 'em until they give us the drivers for their cards! |
| jimf Nov 29, 2005 10:28 AM EDT |
I've said it before, there is absolutely no loss in hardware venders turning out open source drivers for Linux. this is especially true for things like video cards, printers, and modems (wireless or otherwise). Sales are sales, and, Linux money is as good as anyone else's. And, why not GPL'd' because no one can possibly make any use of a hardware driver unless they use it with that specific piece of hardware. So I guess my question is, why, besides outright stupidity, would these guys not produce Linux drivers? Is MS somehow involved in this? |
| tadelste Nov 29, 2005 10:44 AM EDT |
I think you answered your own question. |
| jimf Nov 29, 2005 1:14 PM EDT |
Well, I know MS provides indirect incentives for the hardware people to provide Windows drivers first, that's a given. But, it looks to me more and more like someone from MS Corporate is sitting down with these guys and telling them in no uncertain terms that they 'can not' produce Linux drivers, and, it they do there will be dire consequences. So we've just gone from something which is highly unethical to something that is highly illegal. Yeah, I know... nothing new. :) |
| MESMERIC Nov 29, 2005 3:43 PM EDT |
Name and Shame
or
Name and Promote. I've been thinking about this for a while (but can't waste more money on Linux domain names that I end expiring not being used). There should be a central database for Linux hardware shoppers. Where Linux-Friendly hardware are promoted .. not only because they work - but also because they actually mention Linux itself on their website/datasheet! Apart from Linux compatibility - the degree of "Linux-friendliness" is further rated by things such as: 1. Is Linux actually mentioned on the vendor site? 2. Is Linux actually mentioned on the vendor's hardware page? 3. Is there a Linux section? 4. Are there Linux installation instructions or manuals? 5. Are there downloadable drivers? (even if closed binary - if needed of course) 6. Is the source code open (for me that is not a must, some vendors release their code - so that instead of you having an easy-to-install .deb or .rpm - you have a link to a CVS folder in sourceforge; wow that will help granny loads!) That way people - that do love Linux, believe in Linux, respect Linux - end up supporting a vendor that shows the same attitude. How many of you have done a search for Linux (on a hardware vendor site) .. and the results was "Term not found" ? What about new people to Linux then? How frustrating. Sure such hardware is "known" by some to be compatible with Linux ... then for that extra sense of security - you go and search for information on the website and it contradicts with "Systems supported: Windows 95 / 98 / Me / XP / Mac Os". Let's analyse the system then ... I "heard" Labtecs webcams are compatible with Linux. But look at http://www.labtec.com/index.cfm/gear/details/EUR/EN,crid=30,... 1. Is Linux actually mentioned on the vendor site? No 2. Is Linux actually mentioned on the vendor's hardware page? No 3. Is there a Linux section? No 4. Are there Linux installation instructions or manuals? No 5. Are there downloadable drivers? Not needed(?) ---------- I've "heard" Logitech Webcam Express works with Linux (out of the box) http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/AU/EN,CRI... 1. Is Linux actually mentioned on the vendor site? Yes 2. Is Linux actually mentioned on the vendor's hardware page? No ie Operating Systems: Windows® 98, Windows® 2000, Windows® Me, or Windows® XP 3. Is there a Linux section? I couldn't find one 4. Are there Linux installation instructions or manuals? No 5. Are there downloadable drivers? No but ... 6. Is the source code open? Yes http://qce-ga.sourceforge.net/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/qce-ga ---------------- This is very rough .. but you could build a system of points. Naturally the fact it works out of the box should carry the heaviest scores. But all the extra Linux-newuser-friendliness should at least place a company that respects the presence of Linux higher in the suggested list of hardware; then one that does not even mention it is supported on their own website. If I had time I would do such a database .. but not sure whether to call the site "Linux-friendly" (Naming and Promoting companies) or "Linux-unfriendly" (Naming and Shaming companies that can't even be bothered to produce WIRELESS DRIVERS for Linux). |
| Joelol75 Dec 01, 2005 12:09 PM EDT |
Hello all...My first post :) The reason why many wireless chipset makers do not release native linux drivers is because... I know many Broadcom chips are because of this anyway... Well because the channel frequency is set not in hardware, but in the driver itself (reminesent of WinModems). Which means a linux driver can therefore be 'hacked' to broadcast on frequencies which will be in violation of the FCC. Broadcom has the driver source no doubt, but will NEVER release it because of liability issues.... In some texts I read that they would love to support linux but can't... If this were the truth they would or should have fired whoever designed the chipset in the first place IMO. I guess they figure the amount of money they save in manufacture (by software freq control) to stuff in their pockets outweighs the loss of 'some' linux users... (Or is Bill Gate$ stufing Broadcoms pocket...) I wish I knew before buying my card, but it is working fine under ndiswrapper for now in every distro I tried (SuSe, Mandriva, Ubantu, Gentoo so far) |
| tuxchick Dec 01, 2005 12:21 PM EDT |
That's interesting information, Joelol75. As you can imagine, my vote goes to "Bill Gate$ stufing Broadcoms pocket", because ANY radio device can be hacked to broadcast outside its allowed frequencies. It may be a code hack, or a soldering iron hack, but either way it's not very difficult. |
| tadelste Dec 01, 2005 1:27 PM EDT |
Joelol75: I agree with your assessment. But, I think Bill Gates is to cheap to pay hardware vendors money. (IMHO). He probably says play ball or lose business. Thanks for the information. |
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