Is it to Kill OOo?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Abe Nov 22, 2005 9:12 AM EDT |
The only reason I can think of MS is doing that is to undermine and sabotage OpenDocument Format (ODF). Otherwise, why would they expose their cash cow? MS Knows they lost, even if MA doesn't commit to ODF. There will be other states and countries that will accomplish what MA is trying hard to accomplish. One might think, it would be much easier and cheaper for MS to create a translation tool; but strategically, they know they lost and the snowball is on the move. Opening Office XML format, they think, could take the thunder out of ODF. Eventually, ODF will die a slow death and MS XML format will again be the only adopted format. I don't trust MS and I don't think many in the industry do any more. Who knows what they have up their sleeves? This is a PR stunt to show the list of companies that support their move. We need to know the details of their license before we jump on the band wagon. If MS wants to truly play along and open their format, why aren't they instead supporting ODF which is already accepted as a standard and being reviewed by OSI for approval? MS losing credibility by the day. If they are not sincere about this move, it is going to back fire at them. If they are and their format is truly open and F/free, I am sure OFSS developers will gladly use their format. Time will tell. |
| tadelste Nov 22, 2005 9:19 AM EDT |
Of course. See http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/48268/index.html |
| salparadise Nov 22, 2005 9:33 AM EDT |
[url=http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050925165302314&query=you\'re kidding, right?]http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050925165302314&q...[/url] Scroll down to where it says "You're kidding right?" (right underneath the "To be or Not to be" spoof), and read what's under it. |
| number6x Nov 22, 2005 9:38 AM EDT |
No No No... Microsoft never kills anything. Microsoft is good, your good friend. This will just cut off ODF's air supply. If this result's in ODF's death, that's secondary. Microsoft didn't kill ODF, the lack of air did. ODF should have gotten its own air, and stopped trying to take Microsoft's precious air. Microsoft has been convicted of monopolistic, illegal business practices. The punishment for that was for Microsoft to give free copies of its own software to schools, blocking the entry of F/OSS into those same schools! This punishment resulted in more customers for Microsoft, and a larger more powerful monopoly. With such positive reinforcement from the federal government, why should Microsoft change its business practices? |
| hkwint Nov 22, 2005 10:12 AM EDT |
You guys are so negative. Please read this Q&A (PressPass spoke with Jean Paoli, Microsoft's senior director of XML architecture): Quoting:The Office Open XML file formats will provide 100 percent of the functionality of the binary formats, as well as total backward compatibility through all past versions of Office. Microsoft plans to ship converters with Office "12" that enable users to transform binary documents to XML documents without any information or formatting loss. We’re also providing add-ons to older products, starting with Office 2000, so that customers won’t need to upgrade products or spend more money to take advantage of Microsoft software to support the open standard. And over time, many other tools will likely appear. ... You know what this reads? If you don't, let me explain: Companies can buy 1 license of MS Office, use it to convert all their old binary MS Office stuff (no matter if that are 5 or 5 billion files, 1 license is sufficient!) to MS XML 2003, and from there, OOo/3d party filters can do the rest of the job. This means, the last advantage of MS Office (its ability to read old & current MS Office File Formats) will be gone. Because why would anybody use MS Office to make open XML formats if OOo does the same for free, and StarOffice does the same for less including support? MS admits their customers are right. MS admits their XML formats weren't open at all, before this. MS admits Europe is important to them (ECMA is European, the press release was in Paris, which is even in FRANCE!). MS is giving away the last advantage of MS Office over OOo. MS says farewell to its Office-lockin of customers. MS admits others should be able to influence théir standards (example: IBM and Novell are in the ECMA, though Novell can't vote). MS admits open source software can cater faster to the wishes of customers than they can. MS admits file formats shouldn't be patentable, and usable with open source. In four words: MS admits they lost. In MS-PR-terms: "ODF is already proven to work, because many governments and companies are relying on it for their critical data." If migrating old data is no longer the problem, then who's going to pay for MS products? |
| sbergman27 Nov 22, 2005 10:59 AM EDT |
I don't believe any of it because it makes no sense that Microsoft would give up without a fight. Not a single one of the announced government transitions to OSS has been completed yet, and already Microsoft is not only conceding defeat, but going beyond the minimum concesions they could have gotten away with? To use SJVN's terminology, we simply haven't found out what the drop of poison is yet. |
| TPuffin Nov 22, 2005 11:19 AM EDT |
From what I've seen around the net (groklaw, SJVN, etc), the "poison pill" is/will be in the license. Basically, you aren't allowed to write GPL software that will read or write this "standard" format. How does that wash with the above statement from MS? Dunno... I admit to not thoroughly researching this aspect yet; I just heard about this after I got to work this morning, so I could be mistaken. |
| Abe Nov 22, 2005 11:50 AM EDT |
hkwint: I am sure you heard the term "Too good to be true" & "A sucker born every minute". What you described above sounds like MS is giving everything they own in their office suite for free. Do you believe that? why? Since when MS tell the truth? I sure don't believe it unless MS is so fatigued they can't think straight any more. I don't think they reached this level yet. They still have Billions and very wide user base, why would they want do that now? Let us wait a while and see. It is going to be a series of ploys that MS has in store to bombard us with for a while to derail MA adoption of ODF. They are buying time. They are telling governments to wait 18 month and we will have better of everything for you, why bother with ODF? 18 month later, MS comes up with new licenses and requirements totally opposite of what you just cited. When MS is Pennyless, there might be a chance to believe them. |
| tadelste Nov 22, 2005 6:26 PM EDT |
Well, they used this little trick to put the brakes on OOo migrations that for sure. |
| hkwint Nov 23, 2005 4:41 AM EDT |
Uhm, yeah, just being over-optimistic. But the important thing here is: First, MS file formats were all closed binary. Then, MS wouldn't submit their file formats to a standard org. Now they send it to an European Standard org, which means they are sensitive to pressure from competitors and wishes from, especially European, governments. Times are changing, even at MS. Who knows what steps may follow if governments still aren't happy? Look at the number of government OOo migrations and trials in Europe and you know MS has a problem. The ECMA states about patents which may apply to formats: ( http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/codeofconduct.htm ) Quoting:"A written statement from the patentee is required, according to which he is prepared to grant licences on a reasonable, non-discriminatory basis." Non-discriminatory basis means it ain't possible to discriminate GPL or free software I suppose. I don't know the ECMA, but if they don't want to make a fool out of themselves, they won't allow locking out free software I hope. On the other hand, MS might be the biggest player in the ECMA, while Novell doesn't have voting rights, and Sun and Google aren't members. Anyway, its only getting better than it was, I suppose, and you can see what an effect open source has on MS. And we shouldn't forget: OOo migration isn't all about freedom (though RMS wants us to believe so maybe), its also because the costs. I believe writing MS-import filters will be (much) easier because of the ECMA issue than it is now, and thats the (only) important thing here. |
| hkwint Nov 24, 2005 2:40 AM EDT |
Quoting:we simply haven't found out what the drop of poison is yet. Ok, I admit, you people were right, and I was wrong. Here's the drop of poison (well, a whole bucket actually): http://consortiuminfo.org/newsblog/blog.php?ID=1762 The discussion is turning to legal quicksand covered by big clouds of smoke. One of the next few weeks, we will see a Gartner/Yankee/whateker report telling us business should adopt MS XML 2003. So, if you are discussing this issue in the future, please consider mentioning the link I pointed to. As I said in the Ed comment: It may be too little to late. This proves it is. (I should reconsider posting MS PR-stuff in future) |
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