Just a tad harsh aren't they?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| vonskippy Nov 16, 2005 12:24 PM EDT |
In the Olympic sized swimming pool of Desktop OS's - perhaps it's just not worth the time and money to code for a bucketful of users. I think Google has shown their support for OSS many times over (summer of code, money donations, etc). Just because they choose not to commit time and resources to a limited user group doesn't mean they need the "lecture". Lets focus more on the "open" aspect of OSS (as in open to participate or not) and lose the oh so annoying fanboy accusations. |
| tuxchick Nov 16, 2005 1:02 PM EDT |
Are you saying you are opposed to Linux customers asking for features that Windows users enjoy? Are you saying that vendors catering strictly to Windows and us not uttering a peep is a good thing? Where is the openness in this scenario? Google does not make any code or tools available to allow third-party porting of the products that users are asking for. |
| jimf Nov 16, 2005 1:57 PM EDT |
Linux described as " bucketful of users"? We don't have to ask what world you're living in vonskippy. |
| cubrewer Nov 16, 2005 2:07 PM EDT |
Tuxchik: Being a thankless git ... while hiding behind a Linux-branded website... is not doing the Linux community any good. |
| tuxchick Nov 16, 2005 2:24 PM EDT |
OK skippy and cub, I'm confused. (and cub, you can stuff the name-calling.) Please elaborate on your answers. Google took Linux and built a multi-billion dollar empire on it. Google has claimed the higher moral ground from their inception- "do no evil." They are one of the few truly innovative tech companies, with herds of the best talent and biggest budgets in the industry. So what excuse can they possibly provide for ignoring all the millions of Linux (and Mac, and BSD, and other Unixes) users? You have forgotten that the World-Wide Web was built on the premise of universal accessibility. (Read Tim-Berners Lee's books and writings. You remember him- he invented the Web.) "The infidelities of Google" is a calm, reasoned article. Nothing mean or low-class in it. It acknowledges the Summer of Code and the gift to the OSDL. OK, there's two things- what else? Those are nice, but the truly revolutionary, innovative acts would be to provide Linux (and Mac etc.) users with the same goodies that windows users get. From a purely business standpoint, what do they have to lose by broadening their customer base? Why do you advocate users/customers not letting Google know what they want? |
| alc Nov 16, 2005 3:26 PM EDT |
[perhaps it's just not worth the time and money to code for a bucketful of users.] According to the latest estimates there are some 29 million Linux users worldwide. A bucketful? [and lose the oh so annoying fanboy accusations] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy Recently Ken Starks aka helios from Lobby4Linux.com wrote a blog stating We're Waiting Google and made the point that the Linux community doesn't ask for much in return for helping Google achieve success, but the little we have asked for has gone unanswered. Is this what you mean by fanboy? [Tuxchik: Being a thankless git ... while hiding behind a Linux-branded website... is not doing the Linux community any good.] Is it just me,or does it seem like the trolls are spending alot of time here? |
| tuxchick Nov 16, 2005 3:34 PM EDT |
"Is it just me,or does it seem like the trolls are spending alot of time here?" alc, it means we've arrived! |
| cubrewer Nov 16, 2005 3:56 PM EDT |
Why criticize a company like Google that has already done so much when there are so many other companies that have done so little? I advocate not making fools of the Linux community. That's what I think posts like this one, and especially Helios' cranky blog (the one referenced by this article) will accomplish, if anything. |
| bdumm Nov 16, 2005 4:01 PM EDT |
done so much? huh? explain? Don't make such comments and then walk away from them. List the top ten things google has done for the community. Should be easy huh, go ahead cubrewer, since we are all cranky idiots who don't get it obviously.... |
| alc Nov 16, 2005 4:07 PM EDT |
Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is often a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_criticism |
| bdumm Nov 16, 2005 4:10 PM EDT |
alc: lol thx |
| helios Nov 16, 2005 4:26 PM EDT |
Some people feel the need to apologize for members of the group who assertively forward their thoughts and desires. Assertiveness makes them uncomfortable in their presence. If this article is "cranky", then please expand the wiki's to reflect that inflection. Fact is fact...Google's backbone was strengthened by the use of free and open Linux products. They have made billions as a result. They now refuse to answer why they will not reciprocate by providing a couple simple desktop tools for Linux. What is so hard to understand about that? It is a fair question...and relax, I'm sure no one will begrudge you using such tools once google responds. We don't mind making it happen for you. cranky fanboi |
| gryphen Nov 16, 2005 5:18 PM EDT |
As the author of the article in question I think I should respond to some of the posts. First let me thank everyone who has posted a response. The idea of the article is to generate talk, debate, arguments, and new ideas. Second, I think Google is a fine example of what is truly possible when people collaborate and produce innovative products. I use Google search as well as Gmail, AdSense, AdWords, News, Blogger, and Google Sitemaps. Finally, Google is only going to respond when enough Linux, BSD, and Mac users ask, request, and finally demand that we receive the same consideration as MS Windows. cheers, gryphen |
| omz Nov 16, 2005 5:27 PM EDT |
i insist... the only effect of this type of "campaign" is bad press for linux and open source and for google larry page, etc...: have fun with your Boeing ! i dont care and has anything to do with open source, linux ... ( with my respect to the author of the article and his intentions ) |
| tuxchick Nov 16, 2005 5:50 PM EDT |
Bad press? Well, no one can do anything about that- bad press erupts over nothing at all. So that's a non-issue. If you're saying that pressuring Google to support Linux users is bad for Linux and FOSS, then I want to know how. I'm tired of the hot air- give me a reasoned argument, some evidence, anything except continuing to repeat "It's bad, it's bad, it's bad." How is it bad? What will happen? Will thugs from Google abduct our grandmothers? Kick our cats? Give our dogs mange? Jam our laser printers? Retaliate by making all Google products implode when they detect a Linux user? What? So far we have a bouquet of unsupported assertions- make your case, google-acolytes, I double-dog dare you. |
| omz Nov 16, 2005 6:15 PM EDT |
tux, its not only about Google , its about the open source "brand image" or public perception... its not a concrete concept ... it is about being professional or mature in asking a company to support your needs, i believe this http://www.denverlinux.com/myfirstlinux/google.html does not qualify ... |
| bdumm Nov 16, 2005 6:20 PM EDT |
omz: what world do you live in? Have you read any Linux history? brand image, LOL...... |
| omz Nov 16, 2005 6:32 PM EDT |
bdumm: example of the idea: " ...Instead, new faces are needed -- articulate spokespeople who can explain how open source can address the myriad needs of the enterprise. Moreover, they must actively combat the perception that the open source movement is nothing more than a loose coalition of hobbyists, college students, and zealots such as Eric S. Raymond... " extracted from http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1875122986;fp;4;fp... |
| bdumm Nov 16, 2005 6:46 PM EDT |
omz: I understand the reasoning but haven't you learned from any of that history? people can try to make whatever "standard", "brand image", etc that you want..... good luck in making it work... :) |
| helios Nov 16, 2005 7:17 PM EDT |
"t is about being professional or mature in asking a company to support your needs" We have records dating back from 9 months ago, 37 different correspondence by every medium but carrier bird and gold-sashed ambassador. Every attempt to contact Google will be published in a larger article in the coming weeks. All have been civil inquiries. It has been only recently, when it's become apparent they have no intention of answering, that we begain this "campaign". Much to your dismay, it is about to spread and intensify. Please shield your sensibilities as you must. |
| jdixon Nov 17, 2005 3:13 PM EDT |
Lord, where to begin... First, everyone please forgive me for presuming to speak for the group. Secondly, since omz insists on referring to open source, that's the term I'll use, though I prefer Free Software. > its about the open source "brand image" or public perception... Open source is a loose coalition of individuals which share some common goals and ideals. It doesn't HAVE a "brand image", and given the diverse nature of the individuals involved, any such goal is laughable. Manipulating "public perception" is something for corporations such as Microsoft and Google to worry about, not us. > its not a concrete concept ... it is about being professional or mature in asking a company to support your needs, i believe this [HYPERLINK@www.denverlinux.com] does not qualify ... And we think it does. Opinions differ, deal with it. > ...Instead, new faces are needed -- articulate spokespeople who can explain how open source can address the myriad needs of the enterprise. The enterprise needs open source. Open source doesn't need the enterprise. We were using Linux before IBM went hog wild over it, and we'll probably be using it after they've moved onto the next latest and greatest thing. The enterprise is a concern for for Novell and Red Hat, not us. > Moreover, they must actively combat the perception that the open source movement is nothing more than a loose coalition of hobbyists, college students, and zealots such as Eric S. Raymond... " What, no slap at RMS, just ESR. You're slipping. The open source movement IS a loose coalition of hobbyists, college students, and zealots. It's also a loose coaliton of children, teenagers, grandparents, computer professionals, business professionals, and almost any other group you wish to specify. Treating it as an organized or corporate entity is futile. As for ESR, yes he's somewhat overbearing in his political views, but he was a supporter of open source long before you ever heard of it (your own statements make it clear that this is true). We'll gladly take ten of him or RMS over one of you any day. |
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