KDE or Gnome
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| sharkscott Nov 15, 2005 10:57 PM EDT |
Please forgive my niavaty, I am the only person I know that uses Linux. Why is it that some of the "biggest" names in Linux are making Gnome their GUI of choice if most of the people who actually "use" Linux are fond of KDE? I consider myself to be new to Linux, and I have without a doubt come to the conclusion that I will not suffer myself the separation from the K Desktop Environment (like my correct usage?) I have tried out a lot of different distro's and having come from Windows and Apple I honestly did not come to Linux with a preference of GUI, how could I? Like either MS or Mac could have prepared me for what I found :-) Please understand where I am coming from, everything I have discovered and learned about Linux is from the Internet or periodicals that I can find. I seriously have not met a single person "face-to-face" that knew as much about Linux as I do, and all I know about Linux is that I really do not know much at all. I am asking this because I do not understand, I am just now learning the basics of programming and I have no one to just "call up" and ask stupid questions too. Sharkscott |
| jimf Nov 15, 2005 11:17 PM EDT |
Got me sharkscott... I like a bunch of gnome apps, but can't stand the Gnome desktop interface. As far as I'm concerned KDE is the only way to go. I also don't see this "biggest" names in Linux" thing. I have seen that many of the long time users started on Gnome before KDE became popular and think many stay with it because it's what the're used to... In the end, it all comes down to personal preference. |
| Tsela Nov 16, 2005 1:34 AM EDT |
My personal experience is completely opposite to jimf's one: I like a bunch of KDE apps, but can't stand the KDE desktop interface. For me nothing other than GNOME has provided me with a satisfactory user experience, yet (but I'm keeping an eye on E17 ;) ). And I disagree with jimf about the fact that long time users started on GNOME before KDE became popular. AFAIK, KDE existed *before* GNOME, and was *the* popular choice before GNOME started gaining popularity (in this "contest", GNOME is definitely the challenger). After all, the first Red Hat install I've seen had KDE as default desktop. It's only afterwards that Red Hat switched to GNOME as default. In my experience long time users tend to stick to KDE (whether by choice or habit I don't know, but I suspect habit taints choice :) ), while GNOME users tend to be newer arrivals who started with a distro that uses GNOME as default (usually Red Hat/Fedora, but also Ubuntu for instance) and don't change because GNOME is good enough for their needs. I think KDE is the more popular choice mainly because it's the older one around, and is good enough for most people, just like GNOME is good enough for other people. I agree with jimf on two things though: I also don't see this '"biggest" names in Linux' thing, and I believe that choice between one desktop or another comes down to personal preference. |
| jamesstansell Nov 16, 2005 1:36 AM EDT |
I'm one who came to Linux with a background in programming for Unix, long before either KDE or GNOME existed. (In some cases it's still best to use neither.) My impression was that KDE was popular before GNOME was anywhere near usable, and if KDE had a slightly different project direction early on, the GNOME project would likely never even have started. Personally, I've followed GNOME far more closely than KDE, and when I have occasion to use KDE I come away with a "that just isn't right" sort of feeling. I imagine that's the way many people feel about GNOME, too. Actually I do too sometimes. To get back to the original question, I think a great deal of what you're noticing is based on historical reasons that I don't fully understand and won't try to explain. If that only whets your appetite, you can spend several hours reading through the results of a google for "original qt license" which might shed some light. But I'd recommend using the time for something more productive. From a programming perspective I believe that GNOME and KDE are both built on shaky foundations, and I long for a suitable replacement, but there are problems with all the current alternatives. |
| jamesstansell Nov 16, 2005 1:59 AM EDT |
I'm curious what people think regarding "personal preference" regarding corporate desktop Linux. My experience with enterprise desktops is that the less there is to support the better they like it. I don't expect that large corporations will want to support KDE _and_ GNOME, so they'll likely pick just one. As far as I'm concerned either is fine for corporate desktops. When the desktop "upgrades" start in earnest, how big a factor will desktop users' "personal preferences" be for the success of the project? |
| jimf Nov 16, 2005 4:33 AM EDT |
Sorry about the time line mixup. I didn't start investigating Linux with any serious intent until 99-2K. By then the war was on as to who was better.. Kind of like the browser wars. I tried both then and neither was up to W2K or had the apps to compete, but both showed promise. By 2003 when I saw where MS was moving with it's wonderful 'Longhorn' I decided that it was imperative find an alternative OS that actually had a future. It was then the development of equivalent apps rather than KDE or Gnome that made Linux possible for me. Fortunately it was apparent that Linux and both Desktops had come a long way in both the GUI and the apps for them. I tried both Gnome, and KDE at that time, along with numerous other 'light' desktops and finally settled on KDE as my favorite. I continue to check out the latest of each of these, but, so far, KDE works the best. It probably does take longer to set up, but is much more configurable though not more difficult. IMO, Anyone starting in Linux should devote a period of time, at least a week, to each of these GUI's and find out which is best for them. In a personal desktop situation, preference is the only meaningful criteria. You are certainly not 'wrong' to choose either and you owe it to yourself to try both. As for the business environment, One or the other will almost certainly be picked for you, but I suspect that, in most cases, the majority preference will decide which one. So far there is no clear 'winner', only opinion. jamesstansell says: "From a programming perspective I believe that GNOME and KDE are both built on shaky foundations, and I long for a suitable replacement, but there are problems with all the current alternatives." That may be true, but, I've also heard a number of programmers say that X has been a major and persistent problem as a GUI base platform. I hope that the xorg project work will resolve some of this. It's also a matter of how the projects evolved and the cooperation between them, showing the down side of a group effort? It is sometimes easier if one guy controls the show. But that is the nature of Linux. If we wanted perfection, we would all be running MACs or BSD... or not :D. |
| SamShazaam Nov 16, 2005 4:43 AM EDT |
This whole argument is somewhat like arguing about Ford or Chevy. If you can drive one you can drive the other and they will both take you where you want to go. I prefer KDE for totally non-technical reasons. It just has a crisper feel to it. I also agree that there are several Gnome applications that I cannot do without. Ultimately I think the situation will evolve to a single desktop driven by application programmers who will get tired of writing for different environments. You paid your money. Now take your choice. |
| jimf Nov 16, 2005 5:11 AM EDT |
Hey Sam, The Furd and Cheby guys will never agree or cooperate in our lifetimes :D |
| tadelste Nov 16, 2005 7:08 AM EDT |
such skepticism. |
| tuxchick Nov 16, 2005 7:14 AM EDT |
One of the early attractions for Gnome was its hack-ability. The toolkits are free, and based on C, do it's not too difficult to learn to code your own kewl stuff. KDE used to be derided because it's built around C++, and there were some licensing issues over the Qt toolkit. I think the license has changed to be more hobbyist-friendly, tho I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up. As far as using different desktops and window managers, eh, it's all personal preference. Go nuts and try more- Enlightement, IceWM, XFCe- look at http://www.plig.org/xwinman/ to find them. |
| sharkscott Nov 16, 2005 2:13 PM EDT |
First I want to Thank Everyone for their kind responses, Knowledge shared and honest opinions. I will try to respond to concisely :) What I meant about the "biggest names" was this... My first Distro was Fedora Core 1 and then quickly to Fedora Core 3, they both have Gnome as their default GUI, RH-EL does as well. Ubuntu has come out of nowhere to make a serious name for themselves and Gnome has always been their GUI of choice. The Kubuntu project was started much later and just last week Mark Shuttleworth had to come out and say that he is using it on his own computer to calm fears at the Ubuntu Below Zero conference. Novell had to eat their own words recently when it got out that they might not support KDE in SUSE anymore. These are just a few examples of what I have been reading, not that you all don't already know this :) To me, Red Hat and Ubuntu and SUSE are pretty big names with a lot of influence. I agree that it all comes down to personal choice, but when several of the most well known Distro's use and/or switch, or try to switch to Gnome as their default GUI it has a noticeable effect on what "newbies", like me are exposed and get used too. I am not trying to overstate their "power", just how I see, or should say "saw" them when I first started my Linux adventure. The reason I like KDE over Gnome takes me back to FC1. My good friend Damion gives me his old tower with a PIII-450mhz, 128mgs of RAM and a 12gig HD, I pull out all of my extra compy stuff and before I know it I have a second computer sitting in my room. I go buy that book "Linux for Non-Geeks" and proceed to install FC1 on it. A short prefice, I have played the Drums for about 20 years and am now a Special Education Major at Arizona State and have before that studied History, Geology, Anthropology and Chemistry, enough to get several two-year degrees if I wanted them :) Everything I wanted to learn I wanted to teach so I finally got through my head that MAYBE I should get a degree in Teaching :) I did/do know the basics about computers but I am not a computer science wiz or a huge gamer either so I do not have a strong or knowledgeable background in computers, but I am changing that. that definitely was not short :) So, I install FC1 pretty much flawlessly and before I know it I have a Linux Distro on my computer. I thought I was hot shit, so to speak :) I'm reading that book and "walking around" on the desktop. I figure out how to connect it to the Internet and stuff and I decide that I want to change the way the "desktop" looks. I decide to get rid of the bottom menu bar and quickly find out that all of a sudden I cannot see any of the windows I minimize. To make a sad story shorter I could not figure out what I had done, did not avail myself of any of the online resources that I do now(dummy) and I had to go through the process of re-installing FC and actually paying attention(what a concept!) to what was going on. I had many more simple mistakes by me cause me headaches and I know I am the only one to blame. After using FC for about 4 months or so, I download an .iso of SUSE 9.1 and successfully burned it to CD(WooHoo!) and put it on my "Linux Box" as I call it. It felt like a gift compared to Gnome, I know that I had learned at least a little bit but to this day I have yet to not be able to find something or change what I want and not have my own stupidity/ignorance punch me in the face. Like I have said, I know that it was my lack of experience and knowledge that caused me problems with Gnome. But it was, and is my sense of calm and ease in using KDE that has made it fun and made me want to learn more and more. Now as you can tell, I am not a "techie" at heart but I am learning. I do not know jack about why several of you think that both Gnome and KDE are built on shaky foundations, please tell me though, I would like to know. So much for keeping it concise:) Again, Thank You for engaging me in this discussion. You cannot fly like an Eagle if you are surrounded by Turkeys, and if anyone is a Turkey here, it's me:) Scott |
| jimf Nov 16, 2005 2:43 PM EDT |
"several of you think that both Gnome and KDE are built on shaky foundations" As a practical matter Scott, this is of little or no concern to you (unless you are a programmer in one of those enviorments). In any case, both Desktops work just fine in the real world. |
| sharkscott Nov 16, 2005 4:03 PM EDT |
Ouch! Is that your way of telling me not to worry my pretty little head about it? ;) I may not know how to program yet but I do know what different programming languages there are. If you can tell me without getting so simple it makes you hurt yourself I would very much like to know. If I do not understand you, I will tell you or use your explanation to lookup what I need to know. Doesn't everyone start out as a user? Sharkscott |
| bdumm Nov 16, 2005 4:04 PM EDT |
geez, I am the only old fart who reads kde/gnome threads anymore.... :) caution I suffer from massive amounts of short term memory loss. We'll see how good my long term is.... Why Gnome and not KDE? Good question. Haven't seen it answered yet. So here is how I remember it. KDE was out n about first. There was also "other" desktops at the time, that others were using as well. KDE used QT which had a license, many did not agree with.... So RedHat, Miguel n crew all got together and out came gnome. And it has been pushed that way ever since. So imho most of the time the choice of Gnome has little to nothing to do with technical, users, and so on. It does have plenty to do with politics and corporate bullshit imho. In terms of foundations, KDE is light years ahead of gnome in many areas. As both a devel and admin, KDE is much much better than Gnome to me. This has little effect on the politics and corporate bullshit though.... |
| jimf Nov 16, 2005 5:35 PM EDT |
sharkscott, I have no idea whether your head is pretty or little or whatever. I just have no intent of getting my old gray one or yours (whatever the condition) involved in what is essentially non-issue FUD. Next class we'll be discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ;-). |
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