humanism
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jimf Nov 06, 2005 12:03 AM EDT |
Piers Cawley writes:
"Traditional roles are a trap for men as well as women. I sometimes think that ‘Feminism’ is a misnomer—what we want is humanism. It’s not about women having the right to have it all, it’s about everyone having that right." I don't think that could have been better said. |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2005 3:18 AM EDT |
I don't buy the "women are just men with different parts" mantra that feminists have pushed lo these many years. Those darned scientists keep finding too many differences. It's like the liberal version of Creation Science, "It's what I want to believe, so I will." Not that it matters to 99% of life, because every individual is different. As to "humanism" v "feminism", I couldn't agree more. I've never quite understood how people could look at all the ways that men have screwed things up over the centuries -- and, brother, we have -- and then decide that the solution is for women to be just as stupid. Maybe it's a reverse version of deciding (on the sly, of course) that men and women really aren't the same, that men are just too stupid to change so women might as well joing the idiocy. |
| tuxchick Nov 06, 2005 7:01 AM EDT |
dino, did you even bother to read the article, or did your knee jerk you to comment without reading it? Can you go even one day without erroneously characterizing and slandering entire groups of people? Do you have any idea how ignorant and Archie Bunker-ish you sound? Is this really how you think and believe, or is it some sort of subtle parody? It's too subtle for me, if that's the case. I don't know what universe you had to travel to to get "women are just men with different parts," and that feminism means women should be just as stupid as men. Which is idiotic and insulting on so many levels it hurts my head to even type it. Congratulations- you slammed the entire human race in one sentence. I call myself a feminist, and I am proud to say it, and proud to take a stand and advocate for certain issues. Out here in the real world (not in your weird fantasy polarized world where you can apply a simple label to entire populations and thereby know everything about them) "feminism" covers a spectrum of beliefs. The word itself has negative connotations to some people, so they don't use it. But they still advocate for women. The one commonality is knowing that women get mistreated simply for being women, and wanting to do something about it. Yes, I know that sort of mistreatment is a favorite human pastime and applies to all sorts of people- different races, religious faiths, and so forth. It's all wrong. I can't save the whole world, so one of the areas I choose to focus my energies on is women's issues. In a nutshell, this is what I and a lot of my fellow rabble-rousers stand for: 1. feminism is the radical idea that women are people (yeah, it's been quoted to death, but I still like it) 2. women should not have to face barriers to achieving our dreams and goals simply because we are women 3. no one is going to ride in on a white horse and make the world perfect for us, so we have to fight our own battles How does this apply to supporting women in the FOSS world, you ask? Thank you for asking. It's a tough place. It attracts mavericks, rebels, and personality disorders of all types. It's not like a corporate environment where workers are screened and selected; anyone can join. It's entirely self-selected. It's a hangout for misfits. I'm a misfit- I've always been drawn to male-dominated professions. My first job was auto mechanic. Then I had my own landscaping company. Now I hobnob with the world's finest computer geeks. And you know what? I have yet to find a valid excuse for anti-social, rude behavior or bigotry of any kind. No one is so wonderful as to be excused from showing a bit of courtesy and respect. Why would any woman want to be part of such a world? Well, it looks like they don't- Piers cited a study that says that "12% of all developers were women, but only 2% of Open Source developers are." Given that it only counts developers, and not sysadmins/system analyst/network admins/users etc., I suspect that the total percentage of women involved in FOSS is higher than 2%. But it's still pitifully low. What I do is focus on the rewards of participating in the FOSS world, which are legion, and to support and encourage women to join in. So I work to be a visible role model, find other women to be visible role models, support online communities where women can hang out in comfort and friendliness, and learn how to cope with the uglier aspects of the FOSS world. The wonderful bits far outweigh the ugly bits, but that's hard to see when you're the target of some psychopath. So that's how I spend my days. What usefulness have you committed lately, O Jurassic One? |
| tadelste Nov 06, 2005 7:58 AM EDT |
tuxchick and dino: The feminist image has a taint created by people who associate it with some radical element of the population that threatens traditional value systems. Anything I say about it has already been written a few thousand times. Women get a bad rap and the issues assigned to them by the media and zealots have little to do with the real issues women face in daily life. I won't go into my trips to various parts of the world where women are always second rate citizens. Asked why and I have read this ridiculous quote that Man has dominion over all things. It's in so many relgious writings: http://www.unification.net/ws/theme036.htm Aside from Islamic teachings - here's one that's often misinterpreted to mean man - like men where it means mankind if one reads a little future.: Quoting:And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Personally, I believe the whole conversation was a pep talk when mankind had a population of around 100 million globally. One of the reasons people say a woman's place is in the home is because men run out on them and leave them with the babies to raise. I forget the number of single mother households but it's terrible. Dino, I know you and I share some fiscally conservative issues but when it comes to some social issues liberals get credit for having sound and reasonable values. It's time for convervatives to realize the earth is not flat, money shouldn't buy businesses a place above the welfare of the people and that ALL MEN (as in mankind) were created equal. |
| jimf Nov 06, 2005 9:10 AM EDT |
Discounting an individual on the basis of sex is one of the more imbecilic of human endeavors and there is no place in a truly civilized society this kind of behavior. We all must live on this god forsaken planet, 50% of us (more or less) are women, and we need to recognize that all of us, as individuals, have impressive and overlapping skill sets regardless of our sex. All deserve consideration and respect. Anything else is maddness. |
| tadelste Nov 06, 2005 9:14 AM EDT |
Quoting:Anything else is maddness. May I quote you on that? |
| jimf Nov 06, 2005 9:21 AM EDT |
Hey, it's FOSS :) |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2005 9:34 AM EDT |
tuchick - Usefulness? Probably not much, unless you count helping to raise my daughters and supporting my wife in her career. Of your 3 points, I would agree with you completely on everything after the "Feminism is the radical idea that". The attititudes expressed by Open Source folk in the article are more than disappointing - they're distressing. I wonder why people who are, in theory, trying spread software freedom, think they can really do it by shutting out more than half the world's population? For that matter, why they would want to? What a sorry half world they must populate. |
| Aninhumer Nov 06, 2005 10:52 AM EDT |
I probably have a skewed view of the world, as my dad tends to do about as much housework as my mum, if not more, but I think that the most of the difference between men and women is upbringing. I will accept that some biological factors will influence behavior, but not that much. My mum has been doing a psychology courses and says a major problem in this area is "Gender Polarisation", the creation of specific genders (genders are not the same thing as sexes) it is evident even in our languages, we have different pronouns for male and female things, even more so in european languages. If this were removed there would be no such thing as a transvestite, because no clothing would be percived as "women's" clothing. In the same way IT would not be percived as something done by strange pale faced men, it would be done by strange pale faced people. Obviously, that's not going to happen in our lifetimes. So, if we're going to have to put up with the stereotyping of the modern world I don't think there is much we can do to change them. Oh by the way, my mum works in IT with mainframes. Just thought I'd mention it. |
| tuxchick Nov 06, 2005 11:40 AM EDT |
Aninhumer, change happens because people work to make it happen. You are right that there are all kinds of influences on individual development. The bottom line for me is, however a young girl or woman comes to be interested in computing, I want the kind of world that does not automatically slam doors in their faces, or treat them as lesser beings, because they are female. I don't care if its nature or nurture, I don't care if FOSS never has more than 5% women, as long as it's not because thousands of others were chased away by idiots. "strange pale faced people." Heh. :) |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2005 11:51 AM EDT |
Tom et al - Methinks I hear the sound of many knees jerking. Nowhere have I said anything about my views on women's rights, but... As someone raised by a single mother, somebody who saw his mother mistreated in any number of ways, I have a great (but, admittedly, secondhand) appreciation for the unfairness women have faced for years. As someone married to a woman who managed to make her way into technical management at a Fortune 500 company, overcoming her lack of college degree and having to outwit at least one nitwit manager along the way, I have a great appreciation for what an awesome woman she is, and how formidable women can be. As someone who has bought Lego blocks so that his daughters could enjoy the sense of making things -- even though he was told that girls don't like that kind of thing, and as someone who helped his daughters with their math so that they could see their problems had nothing to do with being girls and everything to do with the fact that everybody has trouble with long division, I can appreciate the hurdles young women sometimes have to clear in order to fulfill the potential within. Liberals have this strange bumper sticker notion that they are the only ones who care about human rights, but their cozy bumper sticker world gets a little rigid at times. I can remember my wife being scolded for wasting her life when she decided to take time off to enjoy raising he young daughters. She's in good company, though. If I recall, Anna Quindlen -- not exactly a member of the Eagle Forum -- took some chiding when she quit her NY Times column to spend more time with her children. Silly me, I would have expected true feminists to celebrate the freedom to make that choice. Hmm...speaking of freedom and choice, seems to me their are lots of hard-working and very-liberal Catholic (and other) women who are in the front-lines to support freedom on many fronts, but who, in some eyes, can't be considered feminists because they don't support the killing of unborn children. I've even had self-proclaimed feminists tell me that pro-life women are brain-washed bots who don't know their own minds. So, while you guys are patting yourselves on the back, leave the rest of those to look out for the folks who don't fit into the rigid confines of your orthodoxy. |
| sharkscott Nov 06, 2005 12:00 PM EDT |
Men AND Women are two halves of one species. Human. Anything and Anyone who tells you different, is False. Utterly and completely, False. The lie that Men are better than Women has been sold to us from the beginning of time. It is the First Lie. And it will be the last lie to go. Men will use God, and any other excuse that serves their need to perpetuate it. The Monotheistic God was created to sub-serve Women. The Polytheistic Male Sun God was used to sub-serve Women, there were still female gods though. Pure Heresy to a Monotheistic person. Men and Women are two halves of one species, Human. Take that concept and measure it against...anything, and see what your left with. Not much. |
| tuxchick Nov 06, 2005 1:14 PM EDT |
dino, you're right about one thing- when I see stereotyping, it definitely jerks my knee. Drives me right around the bend, it does. I'll try to not be so ballistic in the future, since tantrums are undignified, and I might oughta practice what I preach. A little, anyway. |
| dinotrac Nov 06, 2005 1:24 PM EDT |
tuxchick - Not to worry. As you are well aware, I'm the last person in the world with any right to complain about knee-jerking. The one really good legacy I got from law school and my brief practice of the profession was that many issues have strong cases on both sides, and that people can go out for a beer after knocking each other's brains in (figuratively) just hours before. I'd rather live with some rants - even ones that hit me where I live - than live in a world where they can't happen. |
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