Wrong Definitions..
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| devnet Oct 18, 2005 8:21 AM EDT |
Your Definition: "New User" - meaning a user with a strong technical base...technical enough to know Windows is bad and seek out a replacement for it. My Definition: "New User" - a user that is new to the entire concept of Linux, Open Source, and controlling their operating system. Non-technical type that may or may not know Windows is bad but heard of this Linux thing and wanted to give it a try. One thing is certain...My wife (who is very non-technical and is very standard as far as a computer user goes) looked at many major distros of Linux. She was looking to do things that she normally did in Windows XP Pro on a Linux computer AND feeling comfortable with the distro as she did it. We considered Ubuntu, Fedora Core, MEPIS, Mandrake/driva, and PCLinuxOS. Her two lowest scoring distros were Fedora Core and Ubuntu. They are not "New User" friendly as far as distros go (using my definition). So goes the question...what is a 'New User'? Shouldn't Linux be for everyone and not just those with a bit of technical knowledge? I don't like how people just push everyone to distros like Fedora Core and Ubuntu when they run across a "New User" because experiences with these two distros can be very, very discouraging...I can't tell you how many of those "New Users" I know that were put off by those two distros and their experiences with them. New User friendly? Not yet...but getting there. |
| devnet Oct 18, 2005 8:23 AM EDT |
Oh...I forgot to give the URL to my wife's review of those distros... http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/79-Experiment-The-... |
| maco Oct 18, 2005 10:02 AM EDT |
wow^2 - i've had quite the opposite experience. i've converted older computers to Kubuntu (the _entire_ process took less than 40 minutes - about the time it takes to load XP alone - _everything_ worked) for kids in the neighborhood, employees to take computers home, naturalized citizens at the local wat. everyone took to it like fish to water. the _only_ problem is the absence of expected applications, such as quicken, and common apps having different names. (this is a catch22 - not all software is there yet, so if you need it, us ms - who cares?) much todo has been made about the different interface paradigms, but it has been my direct experience that this doen't really bother users - especially kids. |
| salparadise Oct 18, 2005 10:18 AM EDT |
You can't protect all of the people all of the time. If you put a "what level of technical expertise do you have?" question that effects the way the OS appears and works, that appears before anything else on the boot screen (whether it be on a live CD or an install disk) you'll still get some who over-estimate their ability and get into a mess. My point being that there isn't a "one size fits all" solution. Here's a thought... Do you think, given the current conditions online, that there will come a time when to go online will require a license? A license that says "yes I understand about passwords and virii and trojans and pirate software". I do keep coming back to cars as a reference (strange, as I can't drive, never learnt, never will) - when there were but a few cars that didn't go so fast, licenses weren't comulsory. Once the quantity of cars started to increase, along with their potential power, licenses became necessary, to protect drivers from themselves and to protect everyone else from nutters. (I know it's mostly a failure in this regard). With computers becoming a standard part of life for most, will the same principle have to be brought in? (I'm not suggesting this as an idea. As an idea I think it's scary and bad. I'm merely asking the question). I think Ubuntu has "gone so big so quickly" because of the meaning in the name and because of it's tendency to "just work" on a level you only expect from a bought, full version of Mandriva/SuSE. I've recently acquired a tablet PC. With the latest version of Ubuntu, wireless and bluetooth work out of the box. I lack the skills to get the pen and screen rotate working but that's another story. Prior to installing Ubuntu I did a network install of Mandriva and had to add extra repositries for urpmi and configure stuff by hand to get the same functionality. It was, after all, the free version rather than the boxed Official version. Now it might be utter joy to some of us to tinker around and edit files and restart services, but to some this is NOT what they bought a pc for. They expect their machine to work and aren't interested in anything that only works partially. Quite right too! But I do think, as I've said before, that the name and it's meaning are a breath of fresh air in a world full of meaningless words and nonsense-names. Example - (for the sake of humour) - Fedora. ? Oh a hat, of course, computer - hat, how silly of me not to have seen the connection. (I know where the name comes from because I've watched the RedHat setup screens a few times). To a "new user" though... Mandriva - 'nuff said. Slackware - in the UK "slack" has the accepted meaning of "not done properly, corners cut, immoral, loose or sloppy". This is not a snipe at slackware at all, I'm merely pointing out the possible misunderstanding from the name. I could go on. Ubuntu - "Ubuntu ? What?" "Ubuntu" is an ancient African word, meaning "humanity to others". Ubuntu also means "I am what I am because of who we all are". |
| Abe Oct 18, 2005 11:30 AM EDT |
I agree with Devnet. K/Ubuntu has great potential ( I said that before) but it is not there yet. Installation is not newbie friendly enough yet, but it will be. It does not have many of the apps a newbie would want or need. But Adept is a KILLER. After installing, the desktop is empty, I say that is not a welcoming desktop. First time Linux users would be a lot more comfortable when they see icons on the desktop. Did I say Adept is a Killer? It is so user friendly, clean, clear, intiutive, so easy it is almost perfect. Adept will shut up any MS lackey who says that Linux does have an install/update tool. What Kubuntu needs is to have a live CD to boot then install to the hard drive just like Knoppix, Mepis and others already do. Adept will take care of the issue of not having enough apps. And the reason why Ubuntu became so popular, I thing it just because of our nature to explore any new thing. I am sure many of us wanted to see what this strange name distro has to offer that all others before it didn't. |
| tadelste Oct 18, 2005 1:04 PM EDT |
Abe wrotes: "And the reason why Ubuntu became so popular, I thing it just because of our nature to explore any new thing. I am sure many of us wanted to see what this strange name distro has to offer that all others before it didn't". MDB, I tend to agree for a large number of hosts. I don't know what percentage. And, I think that the philosophy attracted many people too. I first thought that the name was so odd no one would ever get used to it. But people did get used to it. And they responded to kindness. I rode heard on the users-discussion list for nearly a year. Very helpful, kind, polite people. Lots of people moving over to Linux from Windows. I even saw a couple of times that someone asked a Windows XP question and it got answered - no anger or flames. In many cultures around the world, people have respect and admiration for others. Many treat each other with dignity. Can you imagine such things? They don't say - that's cornie or hoaky or dumb. I saw courteous behavior in Lubbock, Texas and Mobile, Alabama and Amman, Jordan. Of course, some might say those are three of the friendless communities on the planet. But, I think those people on the Isle of Man have good intentions and on some level, souls pick up on sincerity regardless if someone comes along and says it's hoaky. But then, I'm preaching to the choir, Abe. You and I know this. But, I wanted to share that with others too. |
| Abe Oct 18, 2005 5:00 PM EDT |
So true Tom, so true. well put. "I am sure many of us wanted to see what this strange name distro has to offer that all others before it didn't." The statement above was meant be to inclusive. In terms of technical aspects, Ubuntu is still lacking. It hasn't offered much more than the other distros but the message it carries, which is very possible to be the reason for its popularity. let's hope they persist with it. |
| helios Oct 19, 2005 6:32 AM EDT |
Devnet sees this clearly, and having followed the "experiment" on his website with great focus I decided to look at the distros featured therein and follow up with my own experiences. I too am a bit befuddled by the popularity of Ubuntu. I think it is time for us to look at this from the perspective of "Team Linux" instead of distro-fragmented hit squads. At some point, SOME Linux project will have to step out and proclaim "THIS is what we present as an alternative to MS Windows." Is Ubuntu that hero? While I heartily applaude the effort and direction our space cowboy is taking the project, I must admit that it lacks many New User features. Updateing the sources.list, while adequately explained, is a pita. I have grown to like gnome based on my experiences with Ubuntu, but with the repository addresses being in flux and not always available, I ended up finding a current win32codec and libdvdcss .deb file and manually installing them. That alone should knock a few popularity points from it. Sure, you and I can roll our eyes, roll up our sleeves and "fix" it...but again; it's all about the New User. New User gets an unpleasant suprise many times with Ubuntu. As a member of Friends4Friends, I spent 4 hours on the phone and in gaim with a New Linux Convert last night, trying to make the new Mandriva install work for him. What a friggin' nightmare. We won't go into specifics, but I gotta tell you...keep at least an intermediate Linux User in your pocket if you intend to use Mandriva as your first Linux hard drive install. I realize this was not supposed to morph into a "mine's better than yours" debate, but eventually it always does. Bottom line is that there are few New Linux User friendly distros I personally feel comfortable with. Mandriva is most certainly not one of them. I believe Devnet's conclusions were correct and the right dog got the bone. Then again, we are back to which motive we support. The goal of displacing MS as the first-line operating system or the perspective of more choices is always a good thing. I stand firm...one foot squarely planted in each. I just hope the boats don't begin to drift. It's hard to be taken seriously with a wet @$$. |
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