I've heard of this before...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| devnet Oct 18, 2005 8:06 AM EDT |
Yeah...a Debian based minimal install/live CD hard drive saver...wait, isn't that Knoppix? Next thing you know we'll have KnoppBuntu and Knoppix will be rendered useless. This is approaching fanatical silliness. |
| tadelste Oct 18, 2005 8:33 AM EDT |
I didn't use a LiveCD. This was a full install. I realize it's fanatical and silly. But, then a LiveCD wouldn't have worked. |
| richo123 Oct 18, 2005 9:21 AM EDT |
devnet, I have it from the highest authority (sabdl (self appointed benevolent dictator for life) Shuttleworth) that if you don't stop your anti-Ubuntu tirade then he will send the boys around to your house. Kidding aside, you don't have to use Knoppbuntu use Knoppix instead. I do, I prefer it because it mounts all my partitions and Knoppbuntu doesn't. It's all about choice. I've been a Ubuntu forum lurker for a year and while there is a fair bit of immaturity and fan-boy behaviour which grates, to call it fanatical is simply off base. |
| tadelste Oct 18, 2005 12:13 PM EDT |
richo123: To call anything in open-source fanatical grates me a little. I was around when Linux users numbered 30,000. The war was between UNIX and Microsoft aka the Evil Empire. The number of people on each side was evenly split. Folks were making mean spirited comments on usenet. Throw in Novell and OS/2 on the Evil Empire side. Both sides called each other fanatics. Technet - fanatics. USENIX - fanatics. Actually, neither fit the definition: a person motivated by irrational enthusiasm (as for a cause); "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill Fanaticism, from French fanatique or Latin fanaticus 'of a temple, inspired by a god'. marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea; "rabid isolationist" I don't think that I've seen much excessive enthusiasm. Now, I have seen such things in other contexts when I was researching a book on Cults. Of course, after I presented the idea to a publisher, they turned it down because they didn't think people had an interest in that sort of thing. The next month in Waco the Branch Devidians were attacked by fanatics from the Dept of Justice. I see enthusiasm for Linux and I expect it. I see people calling us guys fanatics to attempt to disenfranchise the users. But, then I am a technician and I wouldn't want to be in the pickle of the only option being Windows. So, call me a radical. But one person's radical is another's contributor eh. I've seen horrible posts and mean spirited attacks for years, but that's not fanaticism - it's simply bad manners, poor upbringing, unbridled egotism and people raised either by a television set where cartoon characters cut off people's heads and other body parts or shoot each other or parents who are abusive causing lots of pent up anger, etc. The mean spirited posts are just another form of psychological transference. But there ain't no fanatics in these here parts, bubba. Wirtten in a spirit of harmony, understanding, empathy and kindness - btw. You fanatic. |
| richo123 Oct 18, 2005 12:27 PM EDT |
Tom, Nothing I can disagree with there ;-) Oh except the last two words. See I read the whole post. |
| tadelste Oct 18, 2005 12:50 PM EDT |
richo123, I tried to slip that one past you. ;-) |
| SFN Oct 18, 2005 5:12 PM EDT |
devnet, I've followed your posts here and as a result, have ended up reading a number of your blog entries. I respect your opinion but there's one thing that troubles me. Every time anyone says anything positive about Ubuntu, you start giving "the signal" from "Team America". While I can understand not liking a particular distro for your own personal use (I still have yet to be remotely impressed by Linspire) the amount of vitriol you seem to have reserved for Ubuntu is bizarre, to say the least. It's almost as though you view Ubuntu's existence to be a personal affront to you and all you stand for. While I certainly wouldn't tell you to pipe down I have to wonder what Ubuntu ever did to you. |
| tuxchick Oct 18, 2005 5:29 PM EDT |
I rather agree with Devnet. I don't have anything against Ubuntu itself. I think it's a few releases from being polished and nicely done, and there are some troubling problems that remain to be worked out. Like what happens if Billionaire Mark gets bored and abandons it? How closely will it mirror Real Debian- is it going to mirror the Debian repositories, or is it going to fork to the point that they won't work? Is the Ubuntu community going to support Debian, instead of looting it? And too I am tired of the Ubuntu crowd chanting like the sheep in Animal Farm at every opportunity. Yeah, enthusiasm is nice, but fanbois are tedious. It's a long way from being the Greatest Linux of All Time. edit: Wow, does that ever sound like a grumpy, jaded old fart. OK here is a silver lining: it is getting a lot of people excited about Linux, and I think that overrides everything else. |
| Abe Oct 18, 2005 6:22 PM EDT |
"Like what happens if Billionaire Mark gets bored and abandons it? How closely will it mirror Real Debian- is it going to mirror the Debian repositories, or is it going to fork to the point that they won't work? Is the Ubuntu community going to support Debian, instead of looting it?" Tuxchick, do you know something we don't or second guessing? Please elaborate. I agree that Ubuntu is still lacking, but I think it is making pretty good progress and going in the right direction. Thanks to the creativity and innovations of its own and many others developers working on other distros too. Isn't that what FOSS is all about? Is Ubuntu hiding any of its devlopments? Isn't it contributing back to Debian? Are we missing something here? what makes you thing that Mark is going to get bored? Please enlighten us. My impression is that mark is trying to get Ubuntu group to a point where it is self sufficient and sustainning, do you see different objectives? |
| richo123 Oct 18, 2005 6:32 PM EDT |
Tuxchick, I'm far from a Ubuntu fanatic/fanboy and some of the things you mentioned bother me a bit especially the Shuttleworth man of mystery angle. I do think however you were a bit unfair to say: "Is the Ubuntu community going to support Debian, instead of looting it?" They have contributed major source back into the Debian project: xorg; modularized X, gcc4. Its not binary compatible but the source effort is there by the Ubuntu developers. I use Ubuntu because I don't want to bother my decaying brain cells with tons of useless hacking which I needed to do when using Fedora, Gentoo, Debian and Suse. And I also agree it is not the Greatest Linux of All Time. |
| tadelste Oct 18, 2005 6:33 PM EDT |
So, I don't know where you get that Ubuntu is not comparable to other distros or that it's behind. The latest release 5.10 is tight and a good product. I had my concerns about 5.04 and did not think it was finished. But not 5.10. I was going to let you guys ride on this one but it ain't so. So, I like Debian-Stable for servers. I have a RH4 that Severian and I are supposed to have up and going and I have Debian w/o X as my personal web server, lab animal, etc. I really, really like doing administration on the debian box. I like this version of Ubuntu's desktop. I like SUSE 10 on my wife's system. But, please don't tell me Ubuntu isn't ready. Also, mark's been a debian developer since Ian started the project and is still a code contributor. What makes anyone suggest that he'll walk? None of this makes sense to me. Why don't we discuss Billy the Goat leaving M$. He distributed the cash you know since his buddy on Penn avenue got the tax rate down for him. |
| SFN Oct 18, 2005 7:29 PM EDT |
My comment wasn't really about Ubuntu's strength's or weaknesses or devnet's impressions of them. Although I use Ubuntu and rather like it, I agree that there are still a number of improvements to be made. Of course, this is only it's third release. It was more about the tone. It's one thing to point out faults. It's another thing to go off on a tirade at the mention of a name. |
| tadelste Oct 18, 2005 7:55 PM EDT |
SFN: I go into a tirade whenever I see the wrong beer in the refrigerator, especially when it's dark and I think it's Guinness and it's not. It really floors me. I think I'll put up my own blog about dark ales and imitations of Guinness. I want to take a trip to Ireland and spend a week traveling around to pubs because I know I'll get real Guinness. I might even move there if they'll have me. I wonder if my keyboards will work? Back to the subject. People have different buttons - stimuli that sets them off. We want everyone to be tolerate of us when we step in dog sh*t. You know, we step in it and go a few steps and then realize it. That's what people do. We also get hooked and emotional and we don't know why - but something in the environment triggers a response. Those responses are stored in memory. We get a sig and we go on automatic. I've discussed this with Dave. I wanted to ban some users like penguinfkr and delete his posts, etc. He's an astroturfing jerk. But, we don't do that. It really gets down to a question of where one draws the line. Dave gives people a very wide berth - lots. Stuff doesn't bother him like it does me. But, I can see his point. I'm getting accustomed to the high road and I like the air. I can ramble on about this more if you want. But what I really want to say is that you might take it up with devnet by email. Or, you can write an article about your views and we'll publish it. Meanwhile, a cold Guinness sounds pretty good eh. See what I mean about stimulus-response? |
| tuxchick Oct 18, 2005 8:23 PM EDT |
Reeling from the savage blows of massed Ubuntu Attack Hamsters, tuxchick beats a strategic retreat to her massive underground lair; plots her next attempt at world domination; demonstrates adroit use of semi-colons; and removes a strangely tight-fitting foot from her mouth. |
| PaulFerris Oct 19, 2005 6:12 AM EDT |
tuxchick: I can easily fit both of my feet in my mouth -- what does that say about me?!? --FeriCyde |
| richo123 Oct 19, 2005 6:37 AM EDT |
Tuxchick, LOL. Attack Hamsters are much cuddlier and "human" than Attack Dogs. |
| tadelste Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM EDT |
Paul: I realize you addressed this to tuxchick, but I'd like to answer the question. It means everything is nothing. |
| jimf Oct 19, 2005 12:08 PM EDT |
Well, on this one I pretty much agree with tuxchick; even though the hampster army has gotten pretty massive and they are the one's that appear to be ploting world domination ;-). |
| Abe Oct 19, 2005 12:52 PM EDT |
I could live in a world dominated by hamster as long as they don't use Windows. |
| tadelste Oct 19, 2005 1:24 PM EDT |
Would the hamsters allow Guinness? I can't vote on the issue until I get this question answered. |
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