Advertising?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| r_a_trip May 25, 2005 3:07 PM EDT |
Yes, if you want to ramrod GNU/Linux into the limelight overnight and be faced with hordes of demanding and technically inept Windows Users. Totally unwilling to learn anything and absolutely willing to make ridiculous demands about how "the Linux" should work. No, let it grow slow. The pace might seem glacial, but it is killing Microsoft's monopoly control on the market with the "death through a thousand cuts". Note that I said killing the monopoly control, not killing Microsoft. We don't need GNU/Linux to be the absolute top dog. We just need the incumbent top dog to become just one of the many. In a market where you are one of the many, interoperability becomes paramount. Push MS off the pedestal and you've solved many problems at once. Trying to kick-start and boost a slow natural process most likely will have adverse effects. Let GNU/Linux grow on its own. Don't try to speed it up with "nuclear power". p.s. The fragmentation thing is a false perception. GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux. The differences are cosmetic. Persons unable to learn that those differences are cosmetic are not ready yet to get into GNU/Linux. |
| helios May 25, 2005 5:15 PM EDT |
Persons unable to learn that those differences are cosmetic are not ready yet to get into GNU/Linux. The difference between apt, yum, rpm, emerge, etc are cosmetic? No, they are the guts and gears of the systems. The package management system alone is enough to distinguish which distro is which...not a theme or wallpaper. Do you have any idea how many people decide on which distro they will use depending on how their software is managed? This is going to be important to a new user as well, once they begin to understand Linux. A desktop or desktop environment can be cosmetic, but not the heart of the system. Oh man...you know, I have been lurking and to a lesser extent participating on this site for a relative short time. I have read your work and opinion and I gotta say, The above statement just isn't what I am used to hearing from you. OK...I know you are going to correct me if I am wrong and who knows...your opinion on things may have changed, I really think you're a decent sort of guy but damn, if that does not smack of Linux Elitism, then I have never seen or heard it. You raise some very thoughtful and I believe accurate points concerning the growth of Linux...enough for me to at least re-think my plan of action. Re-thinking though is not capitulating. See, I am not necessarily concerned with "hurting Microsoft". I have been accused of being a MS HitMan and I assure you I am not. In fact, I give MS credit when it their due, but I am strongly critical of them when it is merited as well. I simply want to make Linux a viable alternative to the desktop because I think it should be, as do millions of others. Escalation of the use of Linux is going to do one of two things. It is going to cause the improvement and proliferation of our software, or yes, it will drown it with demands for improvement. Now I would assume from your statements above that you really don't think Linux is ready for the desktop. I disagree, and I am willing to invest a part of my own money to advertise it. We will just agree to disagree on that, but Man...you gotta give people some credit for intelligence and the ability to discern for themselves what is good and what they like. Besides, giving Linux some public exposure may be just the push you speak of to get MS off the pedestal. The main fact is that an entire NEW generation of computer user is on the horizon...and they deserve a choice. They are not going to get that unless they know it is available. Come later this summer in Austin Texas...we will see |
| SFN May 26, 2005 7:52 AM EDT |
"hordes of demanding and technically inept Windows Users" I propose that, from here on out, this group be referred to as Soylent Green. |
| r_a_trip May 26, 2005 9:17 AM EDT |
Persons unable to learn that those differences are cosmetic are not ready yet to get into GNU/Linux. OK...I know you are going to correct me if I am wrong and who knows...your opinion on things may have changed, I really think you're a decent sort of guy but damn, if that does not smack of Linux Elitism, then I have never seen or heard it. Yep, the old accusation that I'm a GNU/Linux elitist. I very well may be. I am a person who believes that we shouldn't try to mold GNU/Linux into what it is not. GNU/Linux is not a drop-in replacement for a few OSes that pretend to be usable to people who seem to be unwilling to learn the slightest thing about computers. I am not talking about those people, who are not that experienced with computers, but willing to pick up new things. I'm talking about that large group that will not pick up something new out of principle. They will refuse to pay attention when you show them something that could ease their job significantly, if they got the hang of it. (No, I'm not a bad teacher! :D I'm patient and I've passed on some pretty cool knowledge to others who were willing to pay attention to it). Maybe it's just the general populace in The Netherlands, but I've encountered too many that have learned a very sparse set of skills (under protest perhaps?) and are vehemently against learning anything new. One example: I know a person that keeps asking my help when the Windows Taskbar is shifted from its bottom screen position. Then Windows is "broken". I have told this person that this is standard behaviour in Windows, not a bug. I've shown this person that you can move around the Taskbar to any side of the screen via drag and drop. Yet I keep hearing that Windows is "broken" and that this person needs my help to "fix it". That is why I like to see slow but steady growth. The new-comers will be genuinely interested in using GNU/Linux and they will be of the sort who are not afraid of something different and new. I'm not a GNU/Linux nazi, who expects a first time user to be able to write a bash-script before being allowed to use the OS. I'm not even against advertising, but this advertising should appeal to people, who are willing to use GNU/Linux for its merrits. It shouldn't target people, who will start making demands to turn it into Windows II. GNU/Linux is better than that and deserves better than that. I am fully aware that GNU/Linux has its own flaws and quirks, but I also know that these will be sorted out in time. GNU/Linux is as ready as ever for the desktop, but I think GNU/Linux is not ready for users with a false sense of entitlement, who demand flawless behaviour and are not willing to put in some effort themselves (no, not writing code, but asking for help and learning a little). My "drive" is to protect GNU/Linux from those who would sacrifice everything that is good about GNU/Linux to get a brain-dead, vulnerability infested, click-fest heaven. GUI's are maturing, package-management is getting easier than ever, usefulness is improving leaps and bounds. Let's give that some time to simmer a little longer. If the stew tastes better, it'll attract new-comers who will stay afterwards. If you overheat it, to get it ready faster, you'll chase away people that otherwise would have gotten a second helping. As an aside... The difference between apt, yum, rpm, emerge, etc are cosmetic? No, they are the guts and gears of the systems. Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. The guts and gears of the system are the Linux kernel, the GNU OS, X11 and the various GUI's. Package management is a one-time helper tool to get an application installed and showing up in the menu. After the package is there, the package management has become irrelevant to the use of installed program. The only time in the life of a program that the package management tool becomes relevant again, is if the package is to be upgraded/replaced or removed. It doesn't matter if a system was installed from RPM's, Deb's or tar.gz. When it is running, you are ready to use it. If you are using a Debian variant, you don't have to know how to work RPM. Just use the Debian package tools. The same is true in reverse for RPM based distro's. To use GNU/Linux you don't have to know gazillion ways of installing a package. Most of the time it is enough to know your distro's package manager. |
| helios May 26, 2005 12:04 PM EDT |
but I think GNU/Linux is not ready for users with a false sense of entitlement, who demand flawless behaviour and are not willing to put in some effort themselves (no, not writing code, but asking for help and learning a little). My "drive" is to protect GNU/Linux from those who would sacrifice everything that is good about GNU/Linux to get a brain-dead, vulnerability infested, click-fest heaven. YES...There you are r_a_ Though we had lost you there for awhile...False since of entitlement? Now you wouldn't be talking about Windoze userz would you? LOL I'll strap on the black Elitist armband with you on this statement guy. Guts and gears may have been the wrong way to put it. since most people update and upgrade their software on a semi-regular basis, I would argue with you that the package management system IS important...especially if it sux like yast. Wait...that was pretty judgemental wasn't it? good...maybe now they will fix it. LOL. Thanx for the debate and the new ideas r_a_ ...I've come to look forward to it. helios |
| r_a_trip May 26, 2005 11:40 PM EDT |
I propose that, from here on out, this group be referred to as Soylent Green. Ouch, that is pretty harsh. Although I do have problems accepting the general attitude of the Windows using populace, I don't think they should be seen as a processable industry substrate. Yes, it is pretty annoying to have to deal with them. They will tell you that Windows is the next best thing after sliced bread and they are hopelessly capable of glossing over anything and everything that is wrong with Windows or its mother-company. That is why I want to keep this group unknowing and in denial as long as possible. My dark musings on how to deal with them, are to keep them complacent and then do an end run around them. One day they'll wake up and find themselves in an all FOSS dominated world. It'll be easier to deal with them if they have become the minority, holding all the bad cards. (Or not deal with them at all. When the time comes, they can join or be stuck with Windows). Yes, I'm an Evil Bastard, I know... |
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