Good plan
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| NoDough May 25, 2005 11:33 AM EDT |
OK, so let's see. You managed to alienate... Mac users Microsofties Conservatives Capitalists Any one who likes the penguin The entire middle-eastern region ...all so you could tell us that, in order to encourage choice, we need to eliminate choice. Good plan. |
| devnet May 25, 2005 1:04 PM EDT |
NoDough, It seems you have read the entire article out of context. For instance, "Having the best product does not defeat a better marketing plan. Can you say Macintosh?" That states to me that a mac is a superior product to Windows and Linux....which most people would agree. However, the author argues that macs don't have a marketing plan...which is also true. It's also evident that the author is paying for radio spots to advertise Linux. That to me is NOT alienating anyone who likes the penguin. Perhaps you should read it again? |
| otis_2 May 25, 2005 3:17 PM EDT |
I didn't see that it was really alienating anyone either ... I think the main point was that Linux needs to be marketed in a better way. |
| TxtEdMacs May 25, 2005 6:07 PM EDT |
Though I admire helios' spirit and am not offended by his assertions, MS will not be taken by a full force frontal assault. Think of our experiences in South East Asia when the misapplication of pre WWII experience confused a undefended, liberal republic sold off to placate an aggressive tyrant was confused with a portion of a former French colony run by a narrow clique enforced by an unenlightened military against a national hero, who threw the French out. We picked the wrong side and the long slog with continual casualties with mostly a string of military successes for our side still lost us the war. We were also there to stop China's expansionist tendencies. But a reading of history would have shown as later events did this was a fallacious concept to build policy. That is, Viet Nam had a thousand year history of conflict with China, hence, if you wished to contain China a strong Viet Nam made sense. As to the later historical experience, the North took out the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia and later had a very nasty border war with China. To this day, discussion about that period is not encouraged and there are strong hints that China had the higher casualty count. So too will MS be cut down to size, but they need not vanish, they need only to combine some real product innovation into their product mix if they are to survive the long term continual assualt. You cannot out advertise or market them in the conventional sense. It is by being different and being spread by mostly trusted individual encouraging friends to try Linux. At this moment the desktop is not easily taken by Linux, however, many of us do quite well with the tools now available and those numbers will continue to grow. Linux need not be a homogeneous massive entity to win. Moreover, it need not gain the majority of the "market" to succeed. it needs only to become a significant minority whose strong features are noted and whose numbers supply the incentive for some manufacturers to supply the market needs. It's a time for continued efforts by as many as can help by the means best suited to those individuals. Helios may sound too doctrinaire to many, but in private communications I know him to be a much more open individual. He has reasons to be irratated, but in his writing he comes across more uncompromising than he really is. Give him some slack and let's keep the criticism both civil and focused on the flaws in his arguements. I think he is as much looking for feedback and suggestions despite seeming to only be pushing a plan he has in operation. |
| Koriel May 26, 2005 1:16 AM EDT |
Actually i agree with just about everything in Helios article, just not where it will lead to. I believe in my heart of hearts that true "Desktop Linux" acceptance will never happen simply due to the overwhelming choice of distros. And the only way to solve that little problem is to remove choice or hope and pray that one linux distro would shine through like a diamond in the rough and win the hearts and minds of Joe Blog if either of the events ever occur then i will probably have won the national lottery as well :) But in all events i will continue to use Slackware and PcLinuxOs as they are my favourites and i like choice even though i know it will prevent mainstream desktop linux ever happening. Then again i could be wrong which would also not be a suprise either :) |
| helios May 26, 2005 2:17 PM EDT |
TxtEdMacs - Now you have gone and done it...I was on the fast-track to "friggin' Jerkdom", and you went and told people how I really am. All that effort, the pain...the pain. LOL The truth be told...or at least my perception of the truth? (Truth IS...it is not perceived helios). Excuse me while my voices argue...The way I see it is that if Linux is to gain any market share, then someone has to shake it up a bit. However, several points made in the above replies are not only valid, they are painfully true. My long-held point is also stated by Koriel in that too many distros spoil the marketing. When you have to explain your product instead of promote it, you are going to lose the attention of the consumer immediately. Try explaining to someone completely new to Linux as to why there are hundreds of Linux "Flavors" to choose from...and do it coherently in 30-60 seconds. See? But neither am I open to the alternative. Again, who is going to tell all but a couple of distributions to just go away...and if they did, their loyal users would not. I am going to marshall my resources, as meager as they are in the scope of things, and find a way to make Linux known. I neither have delusions of grandeure or a self-defeating personality...I simply believe that Linux is a superior alternative to Microsoft Windows, not only physically but philosohically. As well, I would not particularly gain any pleasure from the downfall of MS even if Linux was capable of inflicting such damage. People who work for MS have families and hopes and dreams too and I wish them no harm or misfortune. Now what I say next will more than likely hack some people off in a major way. Some of the people involved at the higher levels of the Linux rank structure may be more of a hindrance than an help. I have an email from someone who we would all recognize, telling me that I should shut down Lobby4Linux.com. That our efforts at L4L will do nothing but harm Linux and that any developer who worked with us "could face sanctions". I will reveal this person in time...I must first make sure of the email's authenticity first and I will do so via friends at time-warner and a phone conversation with the individual himself. Trust me, when I decide I can with confidence, release the entire email with the author's identity...Sh** IS going to hit the fan in the Land of Linux. He believes that Linux should stay where it is now and he also believes that the amazing improvements in Linux within the past two years are bad...should have never been improved to this point. See, "Linux was not developed for the masses." Huh? See, I do know how to make a new paragraph sometimes. All of that to say simply...I don't know what to do, but I do know something should and probably must be done to aid in the proliferation of Linux. It is just too good of a thing not to grow and be used. So, I will thrash on this keyboard until my fingers fall off, I will talk to schools, businesses and organizations; demonstrating Linux every chance I get in hope of gaining converts...and you know what? I would be just pinkled tink to have some help. |
| salparadise May 26, 2005 10:45 PM EDT |
There may be 400 + distros but in reality most are either not going anywhere or are designed for such a niche audience as to be effectively meaningless when viewed against the Suse's and Mandriva's.
Some are inactive, some never got past the first release.
This isn't as much a hindrance as some would have you believe. It's being used as an excuse to not be bothered to even try. As has been said elsewhere, when you learned to drive, did you look at the amount of car manufacturers and say "no, too many, I'll not bother"? In OS land we are just coming out of the Model T Ford period. "You can have any car you like as long as it's a black model T Ford." "You can have any OS you like as long as it's Windows." Look where we are now with cars. What variety! This isn't a water tight analogy, just an example. |
| Tsela May 27, 2005 2:19 AM EDT |
salparadise: Actually, your analogy is very good. There are thousands of different car brands out there. The only things in common with all those cars are the driving commands (steering wheels, pedals, etc...) and the fact that they have wheels. For the rest, they are all different:
- automatic vs. manual vs. semi-manual gear box. And even among manual gear boxes, I know of at least two types, depending on how to get to reverse driving.
- type of motor: fossile fuel burning (and even then you have choice between gasoline, diesel and LPG out there, and various types of gasoline which are not always compatible with all kinds of motors), plant oil burning, electric, etc...
- displays: every car seems to have a different way to display speed, time (when it's shown), oil level, etc...
- non-driving-related commands: commands for windscreen wipers, moving the seats around, open the windows, use the radio, etc... can vary widely between car brands even when those brands come from the same supplier!
- and don't forget that even though the driving commands are standard, all cars "feel" different when you drive them, depending not only on their size and shape, but also on their internals.
- many more, those are the only things I could think of right now. Despite this overwhelming choice in car brands, I have yet to see anyone complaining that there are too many cars out there, that it's bad for the car market, that car makers should get together to make better cars and that we don't need more than three or four different kinds of cars. Actually, if someone heard that they would find it rather silly, and the trend seems to be that people actually want *even more* choice in car brands. Now what's the difference with Linux? None. Complaining about Linux distributions doing things differently is like complaining that some cars have a digital speed display while others use an analog one. The most stupid complaint is the one about package management. I mean, since when does one expect to be able to change the seats of his Renault Laguna with seats from a Toyota Yaris? If you want to build a successful car seat business, you'll have to make different kinds of seats for different car brands, and everybody finds that normal. And yet that's *much* more difficult than simply packaging your application differently for different Linux flavours. So, Linux doesn't suffer from the number of Linux distributions. It suffers from the strange idea that somehow choice is good for everything except for operating systems. |
| helios May 27, 2005 4:26 AM EDT |
As has been said elsewhere, when you learned to drive, did you look at the amount of car manufacturers and say "no, too many, I'll not bother"?
In OS land we are just coming out of the Model T Ford period.
"You can have any car you like as long as it's a black model T Ford."
"You can have any OS you like as long as it's Windows."
Look where we are now with cars. What variety! The most stupid complaint is the one about package management. I mean, since when does one expect to be able to change the seats of his Renault Laguna with seats from a Toyota Yaris? If you want to build a successful car seat business, you'll have to make different kinds of seats for different car brands, and everybody finds that normal. And yet that's *much* more difficult than simply packaging your application differently for different Linux flavours. In points only and of course not verbatim...consider yourselves plagerized. I detect the powerful scent of food for thought.. Helios |
| Tsela May 27, 2005 5:34 AM EDT |
Helios, you are free to plagiarise my comments in this thread as much as you want. As for food for thought, just tell us whenever you want another helping :) . |
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